New Bourbon Drinker

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New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby allenm2 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:39 am

Hello all I am somewhat of a new bourbon drinker and starting the process of trying different bottles. I've been searching google trying to decide where to go next and would like some pointers. I will list some of the bottles I have tried already.

Devils Cut. I thought this one was ok, but didn't care for it all

Bulleit and Bulleit 10yr. I actually liked the flavor more on the 10yr but thought both of them were a tad on the harsh side.

Four Roses Single Barrel. I was actually pleasantly surprised on this one; for $35USD I thought it had a nice finish and was relatively smooth also.

I have been wanting to try Eagle Rare Breed and Blantons but they are hard to find in the twin cities.

Can anyone make some suggestions on some bourbons to try under $100USD?
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Squire » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:01 pm

Good morning allen, welcome aboard, we can certainly make some recommendations costing less than $100.00. Point in fact, there are very few regularly produced Bourbons that even approach that figure and those are limited releases such as Four Roses LEs (single barrel and small batch) Buffalo Trace Antique Collection (George T. Stagg, Thomas H. Handy, Eagle Rare 17, Sazerac Rye 18, William Larue Weller), BT's E.H.Taylor Jr. Collection, Heaven Hill Parker's Heritage Collection, Wild Turkey has some as well but I'm not too familiar with them. Of course I'm lopping these together as a range though some stores price hard to find bottles based on demand rather than MSRP.

In the under $50 bracket there is Bourbon in enough variety to fill a lifetime of enjoyment. Age stated, barrel proofs, you name it and some labels (Knob Creek, Elijah Craig, Evan Williams Single Barrel) are widely available as well.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby allenm2 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:38 pm

I was just able to find a bottle of Blanton's; I paid $55usd, which is 5 more than a few places I called. I didn't mind paying an extra 5 bucks since I wasn't able to find it anywhere.I plan on drinking some later this evening. I am super pumped.

I really appreciate all the suggestions. I created a spreadsheet for myself with all the suggestions. I spent my bourbon budget for the next couple weeks on the Blanton's bottle. I plan to pick up some bottles from buffalo trace since a lot of your recommendations come from that distillery.

I had another question about super rare bottles like pappy. I know a lot of places and people are selling it based on demand. How would I go about locating one of these bottles?
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby allenm2 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:36 pm

I am drinking blantons as we speak. I first spent time sniffing and taking in all the flavors. I enjoy the flavor quite nicely, however I didn't find it any smoother than Four Roses Single Barrel. Do people rage over blantons for smoothness or flavor? cause I thought it was just as harsh even when adding a little bit of ice.

Are there any bourbons that are smooth. An example I can give is, I had Jameson Gold Reserve and Yamasak Suntory Whiskeys and they were super smooth.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:14 pm

allenm2 wrote:Are there any bourbons that are smooth. An example I can give is, I had Jameson Gold Reserve and Yamasak Suntory Whiskeys and they were super smooth.


Try a $21 bottle of Larceny for your next purchase. 92 proof, sweet, smooth, easy to find, cheap....
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Squire » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:50 pm

Pappy is a marketing phenomenon that's worth experiencing but not worth the time or money to seek out. Let me give some examples. Years ago the Van Winkle expressions of all ages sat on the shelves gathering dust because must customers like myself preferred rye recipe Bourbons as most still do. I saw Ancient Ancient Age 10 year 86 proof sitting on the shelf next to the Van Winkle 10 year 90 proof. AA was priced higher but sold out while Van Winkle remained because, frankly, the demand wasn't very high.

Julian had no intention of selling 20/23 year old whisky, that all came about because his unsold barreled whisky just kept getting older because there was no demand from knowledgeable customers. Good stuff certainly, Stitzel- Weller stock for the most part, some from other distilleries, he actually sold more volume under his Old Commonwealth brand because it was better known. So, Pappy labeled Bourbons were in limited production because there was simply no reason to undergo the expense of bottling what wouldn't be sold.

My how times change. Timing and circumstance made the brand famous and BT keeps the supply low so people who literally don't know the difference between Bourbon and Scotch believe Pappy is the good stuff therefore desirable. Anyone who wants to know what a wheat recipe Bourbon tastes like can find out with Makers Mark or Larceny, both of which are available and affordable.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby RandyG » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:52 am

Hello fellow Minnesotan. I live in Mankato but go up to the cities quite often. There are a lot of good liquor stores up there.

If you liked the Four Roses Single Barrel, you have to try their Small Batch. I think it's smoother and find myself buying it more than the Single Barrel.
Evan Williams Single Barrel is another smooth one.
Others that I would try are Elijah Craig, Elmer T. Lee (if you can find it), and Rowan's Creek.

Definitely ask the people behind the counter. Most of the good liquor stores up there have one or two people around that are very knowledgeable.

Cheers,
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby allenm2 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:15 pm

Hey everyone thanks for making all the suggestions and helping me out as I get into the hobby. I took the advice of some of you and went to a local liquor store that is known to source a lot of hard to find bottles regularly and he walked me through his entire bourbon selection bottle by bottle talking about the history, how they make it, and what to expect when tasting. He also inquired to my own tasting history and helped steer me to my next selection.

I took note of all of your suggestions and he helped me land on Four Roses Small Batch, and New Holland Beer Barrel Bourbon. I went there getting the Four Roses Small Batch; per Randy's suggestion here on the forums. I thought these would be a good place to start this time around since he mentioned that the New Holland Beer Barrel had a lower proof than the others and wasn't as harsh so it would be a good place to try next.

Anyways just wanted to say thanks for helping me get going I am looking forward to my future tastings.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Squire » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:29 pm

Tasting notes, we want tasting notes.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby ebo » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:40 pm

Squire wrote:Pappy is a marketing phenomenon that's worth experiencing but not worth the time or money to seek out. Let me give some examples. Years ago the Van Winkle expressions of all ages sat on the shelves gathering dust because must customers like myself preferred rye recipe Bourbons as most still do. I saw Ancient Ancient Age 10 year 86 proof sitting on the shelf next to the Van Winkle 10 year 90 proof. AA was priced higher but sold out while Van Winkle remained because, frankly, the demand wasn't very high.

Julian had no intention of selling 20/23 year old whisky, that all came about because his unsold barreled whisky just kept getting older because there was no demand from knowledgeable customers. Good stuff certainly, Stitzel- Weller stock for the most part, some from other distilleries, he actually sold more volume under his Old Commonwealth brand because it was better known. So, Pappy labeled Bourbons were in limited production because there was simply no reason to undergo the expense of bottling what wouldn't be sold.

My how times change. Timing and circumstance made the brand famous and BT keeps the supply low so people who literally don't know the difference between Bourbon and Scotch believe Pappy is the good stuff therefore desirable. Anyone who wants to know what a wheat recipe Bourbon tastes like can find out with Makers Mark or Larceny, both of which are available and affordable.

Awesome post!

I never sought out, nor would I pay the price for Pappy. I've had the 15 year old.... and it was very good. But... It really isn't all that! It certainly isn't worth the trouble, aggravation or price. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Mike » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:47 pm

The time has long since passed when I would buy any Pappy Van Winkle bourbons at their current asking price. It is my opinion that the Pappy 15 YO is as good as any bourbon to be found. But, that is only because I find that a considerable amount of tannins in a bourbon add to its subtlelty and improve the length of the finish (a shortcoming of many wheated bourbons).

I approximate the taste of Pappy 15 YO (which I have on hand) with 70% Woodford Reserve Double Oaked (for the tannins), 25% Maker's Mark Cask Strength (for the softness of the wheat), and 5% water to open the door to the taste. I find this vatting to hit my bourbon sweet spot pretty effectively.

Your mileage will vary according to the demands of your palate (you must learn your own). The difference between the most expensive bourbon and the least expensive is much more a function of the demands of your palate (and your wallet), than it is of any imagined measure of quality.

There are good quality bourbons that sell for less than $20 a bottle. In general, higher quality bourbons cost more, but neither price, nor age are as good a guide as is you own palate. If you find a bourbon that suits you, you are home. But, if you, like me, are ever curious as to that next level, your pursuit can be costly, and not all that rewarding. The choice lies with you, and to be honest, with the needs of your particular psychology. Mine dictated that I pursue a kind of perfection in bourbon that can only be found, I learned, in one's own palate............. but, it is a kind of quest that can last a long time and be expensive. Is it worth it? I seriously doubt it.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Birdo » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:35 pm

As a new bourbon drinker, I suggest trying many of the great mid-shelf offerings. They include Jim Beam Black label, Buffalo Trace, Four Roses Yellow label, Wild Turkey 101 and Makers Mark. Yellow label is the only 80 proofer of the bunch and I consider it to be more of a summer bourbon.

I would not spend big money on this stuff until you have tried these to know what you like.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Squire » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:01 am

Good advice, trying the bog standard Bourbons gives one a grounding of different styles far more disclosive than a few expensive labels can tell.

There was a time, 20 years or so back, that I bought the 10 year Rip Van Winkle by the case. We did a lot of entertaining, had a number of friends/acquaintances who thought Makers was good Bourbon (frankly, back then is was) and being the iconoclast that I am wanted to offer them a wheated recipe Bourbon that I thought was a bit of a step up. My drinking preference then, as now, was the Van Winkle Rye. The Rye was not of course made at Stitzel-Weller but the first bottles of Pappy that won all the awards wasn't made there either.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby fenderbender4 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:52 pm

Squire wrote:Good advice, trying the bog standard Bourbons gives one a grounding of different styles far more disclosive than a few expensive labels can tell.

There was a time, 20 years or so back, that I bought the 10 year Rip Van Winkle by the case. We did a lot of entertaining, had a number of friends/acquaintances who thought Makers was good Bourbon (frankly, back then is was) and being the iconoclast that I am wanted to offer them a wheated recipe Bourbon that I thought was a bit of a step up. My drinking preference then, as now, was the Van Winkle Rye. The Rye was not of course made at Stitzel-Weller but the first bottles of Pappy that won all the awards wasn't made there either.


I would love to buy a bottle each of some type of Pappy, Weller 12, and W.L. Weller just to see what the older ones are about. However, in my course of trying different bourbons, it's funny but I really don't like Maker's Mark. I don't know how to describe it but so far, many of the wheaters seem to "tingle" the front part of my time, like immediately. It seems to come on faster than just the rye pepper thing. So while I want to hunt down a couple bottles of the famous wheaters (probably then set for life), I have a sinking suspicion that I'll be underwhelmed.

As to your mention of scotch, yeah, I've always wondered how the price increases for bourbon ends up putting people in the price range of a LOT of other whiskies if one is willing to look outside of bourbon. For me, I've kind of decided for the time being, really exploring bourbon (some rye's) but I also kind of cringe spending the money and see all the available scotches and irish whiskies. For me, objectively, I find scotches to typically be more "complex" in the different flavors in there. I could be wrong but my $.02. But there is something about being on a bourbon hunt that's fun.
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Re: New Bourbon Drinker

Unread postby Squire » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:37 pm

Of course we don't have to restrict ourselves to Bourbon, or anything for that matter, yet the Bourbon journey is worth the trip in and of itself. So have at it.
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