Jefferson's Ocean...any try it?

[Squire]

Joe I posted the link because I thought you might enjoy it based on your posts. I see the video as mutual promotion between Castle and the bar owner but not as authoritative in any way. Yes it has inaccuracies but I really don't care because I don't confuse marketing with facts.

[crappie_fisherman]

Squire,

The video is an obvious marketing arrangement between the bottler and bar.

I did enjoy the video...so thank you for posting it...it was entertaining.

My point is that the video seemed to indicate (to me at least) that the bar owner/bourbon aficionado selected the Ocean as the older bourbon which to me indicated he thought the actual younger Ocean bourbon to him tasted like the older bourbon (does that make sense?).

Also based on the video the older bourbon was portrayed in text as 12-20yr (blended) yet the bar owner called it a 17 year old...so you are right there are lots of inconsistencies to be overcome.

But my point...was I thought you posted the video to indicate that the Oceans wasn't all that...(how I interpreted it) and yet the video seemed to prove that the Oceans WAS all that...that's all.

Bottom line...I tried the Oceans last night...and yes...I think it is excellent juice...is it worth the $70 price of admission?...well everyone has to make that choice for themselves...Personally I feel it is a little over priced...but still very smooth and enjoyable to drink...so I'd pay it again for another bottle...but that's just me...today so many of the bourbons on the shelves are over priced IMO...but it is what it is I guess and there's no easy way to change that so if we want to indulge in this sinful pleasure...well we'll have to shell out some of our hard earned cash that the government lets us keep

Again...I'm not being argumentative in any way...just trying to understand the point behind the video and why you posted it...and perhaps I read too much into why you posted it...so I apologize if I did...the way I interpreted the video though it pointed to the fact that the Ocean's was a pretty good bourbon...and I agree, IT IS.

Joe.

[Squire]

The point is the video was loaded for the guy to pick the Ocean and with a 50/50 chance he still guessed wrong.

I was more struck by Zoeller's admission the JP bottlings which were advertized as containing SW distillate were also blended with whisky from other sources.

[crappie_fisherman]

The point is the video was loaded for the guy to pick the Ocean and with a 50/50 chance he still guessed wrong.

I was more struck by Zoeller's admission the JP bottlings which were advertized as containing SW distillate were also blended with whisky from other sources.

While you are 100% correct he picked wrong by NOT identifying the Oceans...I view it as it affirmed that Oceans IS smoother than an older bourbon.

He identified the older and smoother bourbon as what he "thought" should have been the Ocean...which to me says the Ocean actually tastes SMOOTHER than the older bourbon and hence the Ocean is SMOOTHER than the older bourbon and thus the younger ocean aged bourbon is BETTER, SMOOTHER and more refined...the way I interpret the facts/results is that he affirmed that the Ocean aging WORKS and fooled his palate into thinking the younger bourbon was actually the older bourbon...remember I am an engineer and rely on data...and the data I have says the Oceans is that good...and I added my OWN DATA to the mix last night and I agree with the facts on the table...when a 7 year old bourbon can taste THAT SMOOTH...and is rye based...WOW...and I am a rye mashbill kind of guy!

I think we're not agreeing as to what the point of the video was...I see it as confirmation that the Ocean aged bourbon DOES WORK and mellows the bourbon faster and thus you can get a smoother sipper sooner...which to a distiller or bottler is HUGE. I see your point in that you are mostly against anything "non-traditional"...which I am not saying is a bad thing...but in reading your posts I get it that you are a traditionalist and mostly against some of these new approaches (i.e. Lincoln Henderson's port barrel aging, Zoeller's ocean aging, NDP's in general)...we are all entitled to our opinions and likes and dislikes...which makes this country the greatest in the world...but just because someone doesn't share the same opinion...doesn't mean it is wrong...it is just different...that's all...

I disagree with the taster in that I could certainly get the salty hints on the rebound finish...my wife picked up on it too...and I think it works very nicely with the sweet upfront caramel notes/tastes...

As far as Zoeller's admission...I'm not as shocked as you...I mean look at the big distillers like Four Roses...Rutledge routinely "blends" his 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts together...but all that juice comes from Lawrenceburg itself and it works amazingly well to "blend" different juice...I mean the 125th Anniversary offering was nothing short of AMAZING and it is a blend of THREE different recipes from them that work amazingly together IMO...so I'm not surprised by the admission actually...I'm certain they all do it...he just happened to be honest and admit it!

I mean how can Willett bottle a 20yr old reserve when they have just started redistilling in Bardstown the last couple of years...yet I am a fan of Willett...I just know it isn't their home brewed juice...and am okay with that too...

Joe.

[loopline]

I love Jeffersons Reserve, and I want to try the Ocean, but I live in "nowheres-ville" Indiana, so it seems unlikley Ill find it and Indiana has strict laws about importing it via mail, only some companies have licenses to ship it in, that or they just haven't had any issues so they do it.

...

Its all subjective, but Id love to hear how you rate them, since you have both.

Loopline,

I am in Indiana as well...and was able to find a bottle...granted I'm not in nowheres-ville though...but by comparision to other states...most of Indiana is nowheres-ville...LOL...

I was able to find my bottle at one of the local liquor shops without much prodding...although apparently the manager had it "set aside" for himself...and somehow my lovely wife convinced him he should sell it......I just have to give him a taste...hopefully he meant the hooch and not my wife!

As far as tastes being subjective...absolutely correct...I've got many friends that love totally different flavor profiles than me...for instance my tastes and HH juice just don't seem to click...

Joe.

Ahh well, hopefully hopefully he meant the liquor, lol. Nice to know its available here in state. My issue is I live down south, near bloomington and Big Red Liquors owns everything, they literally bought up every other shop. So they basically have a monopoly on whats available and what the price is. There is 1 small show where I frequent in martinsville that has the Jeffersons Reserve and on what they do have, they are about $5 cheaper across the board then in bloomington.

When I go to Greenwood, their prices are higher then bloomington, with the exception of Meijers, if Im buying mainline stuff like Blantons or Hendricks (which I also enjoy, its a good gin to break things up once in a while) Meijer gets such quantity they can beat any liquor store on price.

Ill have to check around when I travel. I routinely go anywhere from Carmel to south of Bloomington, so perhaps. I called Big Red and they can't get it and don't have it.

Anyway, glad to hear that its good stuff, sounds on par with their other stuff.

[Squire]

Joe I'm glad you're enjoying your choice, drink it in good health.

On a side note for you fellas shopping in Indiana I suggest Crown Liquor's private barrel selection from Four Roses. It's an 11 year old OBSK that sells for $50 and just won Best Bourbon award at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.

[crappie_fisherman]

Joe I'm glad you're enjoying your choice, drink it in good health.

On a side note for you fellas shopping in Indiana I suggest Crown Liquor's private barrel selection from Four Roses. It's an 11 year old OBSK that sells for $50 and just won Best Bourbon award at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.

Squire,

Thanks for the tip...unfortunately we don't have any Crown Liquors up in NE Indiana by me...

I did just hear that the Spring Single Barrel Release from Four Rose will be an OBSF for 2014...looking forward to getting a hold of one of those...

Joe.

[coffeecupman]

I had seen the video too during a casual internet session trying to check out the buzz on ocean II.

While I agree with Squire the video is like as not scripted, and not worth very much - at least they did have the balls to suggest with a scripted video that it compares well with their higher aged product. Maybe it's not true, but I said to myself "At least, brand-wise, they're going on the line suggesting so". Again, worth very little, but it would be a bad marketing mistake from a brand image perspective if the Ocean was crap and anyone could just taste the difference clearly. None of which is to say Jefferson's is immune from a marketing untruth, as it's history has evidenced, but maybe also they're walking a more careful line because they realize that their image needs some care in the wake of former claims.

Maybes, maybes, and more maybes.

But what's great is we have one absolute in the middle of all these mabyes - Joe's pleasure with this bourbon. As I said, this one has a high novelty factor for me as an offshore worker, so all it really has to be for me to win is decent. Video or no video, and everything being subjective and all, Joe's comments are first hand non-industry suggestion that it holds its own and is enjoyable. He didn't say it's the best bourbon in the world, just that his opinion is it's good and he enjoys it. I thank him for that, because most of the posts out there from regular drinkers about this bourbon are just about cutting it down because they think the idea is stupid. I'm pleased to see a real person come out and tell us that he likes it, even when everyone else is focused on calling the product poor (I'm not directing this at you, Squire - more the many comments I've read around the web).

ccm

[Squire]

Oh I've never called the product bad, here or in a number of posts on the other Board. I think the base whisky is fine though overpriced which is fairly typical for NDP brands.

[coffeecupman]

Understood, Squire.

Bunkered to 9 fathoms. Full steam ahead.

ccm

[crappie_fisherman]

Not to belabor this point...but here is what you said earlier in this thread.

... It sounds good on paper but in actual taste tests conducted by Jeffersons their regular whisky beat out the Ocean and actually appeared to be the more mature.

Based on this link...I disagree with the conclusion you are drawing if you watch the video you posted...the way I am interpreting YOUR words is that the older bourbon in this video appeared to be older? Or are you in fact stating that the Oceans appeared to be older?..I guess I'm confused by what you wrote now that I re-read the words...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/boats-better-tasting-whiskey-210812362.html?vp=1

I think what we can take from this is what matters is the whisky is well aged and leaving it undisturbed in the warehouse still produces the best results.

The clear conclusion I draw from this video (whether staged or not) is that the Oceans APPEARED to this gentleman as the OLDER and SMOOTHER bourbon. He clearly misidentified the two bourbons which to me states that he felt the Oceans was the more MATURE and REFINED and SMOOTHER bourbon. And hence proving the Ocean trip DID IN FACT do what the producer is claiming.

I believe THAT is the point this video is trying to make. Squire you are trying to use this video as proof the Ocean aging did NOTHING to improve on the aging process...correct?

However I feel you are looking at it incorrectly...that last "finishing" step in the aging process (per the results of this video...again whether staged or not) is that the Ocean trip DOES IN FACT mellow the juice more rapidly...I mean an 8 year old bourbon (per thier facts in the video) was thought to be a 12-20 year blended bourbon.

Joe.

[crappie_fisherman]

...
But what's great is we have one absolute in the middle of all these mabyes - Joe's pleasure with this bourbon. As I said, this one has a high novelty factor for me as an offshore worker, so all it really has to be for me to win is decent. Video or no video, and everything being subjective and all, Joe's comments are first hand non-industry suggestion that it holds its own and is enjoyable. He didn't say it's the best bourbon in the world, just that his opinion is it's good and he enjoys it. I thank him for that, because most of the posts out there from regular drinkers about this bourbon are just about cutting it down because they think the idea is stupid. I'm pleased to see a real person come out and tell us that he likes it, even when everyone else is focused on calling the product poor (I'm not directing this at you, Squire - more the many comments I've read around the web).

ccm

ccm,

I sampled this again last evening...and my conclusion is still the same...exceptionally SMOOTH and very nice to sip neat...

My wife and I are going to the liquor store she got this at for a "tasting" event tonight...the store manager that let it loose for me to buy wanted a sample of it...which is cool...I'll bring him some of this tonight and I'll get his impressions as well. I'm also going to take him some of my Angels Envy RYE which they just got in but I ended up buying in Cali since I was not able to get any in Indiana when I was looking for it last Nov/Dec timeframe...I had described the butterscotch notes in the Rye (it is finished in Carribean Rum barrels that started as french congac barrels)...so the flavor profile is pretty complex from a sweet perspective for a RYE...he was intrigued...so I'll give him a sample...

Joe.

[crappie_fisherman]

Understood, Squire.

Bunkered to 9 fathoms. Full steam ahead.

ccm

While tastes are indeed subjective...I do not think you will be disappointed in this choice...I know I wasn't...sure it could be cheaper...but so could a lot of things in this world these days...I mean ground beef for god sake has risen faster than mad (cow disease ) lately as will bacon and pork products...and don't get me started on the ridiculous price of gasoline and diesel...

[Squire]

Joe I suggest your needle is stuck on this video. My opinion on Jeffersons goes back to including them in tastings since their first introduction some 15 years ago, back when they were still pretending to have to made the whisky themselves. I have been drinking Bourbon for fifty years, though I've only been conducting blind and comparative taste tests for the last 20 years or so. My conclusions are based on first hand experience rather than internet gleanings.

Having said that there are experienced tasters whose opinion I respect so I do listen to what they have to say. On the other Board we have nine pages of posts on Ocean II alone, including first impression tasting notes. You mentioned you had been unable to find any reviews so I linked just the one. There are a number of others which you might enjoy reading as well.

[crappie_fisherman]

Joe I suggest your needle is stuck on this video. My opinion on Jeffersons goes back to including them in tastings since their first introduction some 15 years ago, back when they were still pretending to have to made the whisky themselves. I have been drinking Bourbon for fifty years, though I've only been conducting blind and comparative taste tests for the last 20 years or so. My conclusions are based on first hand experience rather than internet gleanings.

The written word is such that impressions are what they are...I'm no forum newbie...and have been around many different forum groups from trucks to RV's to motorcycles to mini coopers to liquor, etc...I have 10's of thousands of forum posts on various forums and have spent years interacting on them...and I must say...you do come off abrasive and arrogant and condescending in how you type ...

I'm still trying to figure out if that is you and your personality or if you are just being difficult...and I know we can all be difficult...but I'm still trying to decide on you...