BourbonEnthusiast.com

I was long gone from FS&M at the time. They made a lot of bad calls, then went under. But Fred Siegfriedt and Rudy Moeller were two of the finest men I have ever had the pleasure to know. In a way, they spoiled me, working for men of such decency and integrity so early in my career. I thought everybody was like them. It didn't take me long to learn better.

doubleblank wrote:The Goldrings and the Blocks (from San Antonio, my hometown) formed partnerships and alliances on the distribution side beginning in the early '90's. They have now rolled up all their distribution assets into a company called Republic Beverage which operates in 10 states last time I counted. Republic is a major player here in Texas and have helped facilitate the several barrel purchases I have participated in. The Sazerac Company is not a part of Republic.

I have wondered for a long time about the Goldrings' ownership position in both the production of alcohol (Sazerac) and its distribution (Republic).....a position I have been told is unlawful. I'm certain there are ways to "game" the system so that the ownership of various entities doesn't conflict with the law.

Randy

I thought prior to Ancient Age, at one point it was called OFC Distillery. In fact, on the old Rack House in front of the visitor center it's labeled as "OFC" which I believe stands for Old Fashioned Copper. I don't know if there were any other names in between OFC and AA. Maybe Leestown was in there somewhere.

ggilbertva wrote:

doubleblank wrote:The Goldrings and the Blocks (from San Antonio, my hometown) formed partnerships and alliances on the distribution side beginning in the early '90's. They have now rolled up all their distribution assets into a company called Republic Beverage which operates in 10 states last time I counted. Republic is a major player here in Texas and have helped facilitate the several barrel purchases I have participated in. The Sazerac Company is not a part of Republic.

I have wondered for a long time about the Goldrings' ownership position in both the production of alcohol (Sazerac) and its distribution (Republic).....a position I have been told is unlawful. I'm certain there are ways to "game" the system so that the ownership of various entities doesn't conflict with the law.

Randy

I thought prior to Ancient Age, at one point it was called OFC Distillery. In fact, on the old Rack House in front of the visitor center it's labeled as "OFC" which I believe stands for Old Fashioned Copper. I don't know if there were any other names in between OFC and AA. Maybe Leestown was in there somewhere.

It was ... I think "Old Fired Copper" is what the OFC stood for. That goes back to the 19th century. AA is 20th century, probably mid-20th. (I need to find my copy of the history of the distillery and quit guessing.)

There is a building on the grounds (just below the ET Lee club house) that dates to the late 18th century. I think it is called the "Taylor House." Eventually they plan to do something with it.

Catahoula

I forgot to add ...

The Leestown Distillery was the name Sazerac used right after the purchase and before they renamed it Buffalo Trace. The site was called Leestown and was a small community back in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds.

Catahoula

The name at the distillery has changed many times. I have a put together this list of names in chronalogical order.
Before 1870: Swigert Distillery
1870 to mid 1880's: E H Taylor's OFC Distillery (Old Fashioned Copper)
and Carlisle Distillery
Mid 1880's until 1890's: OFC (Old Fire Copper because of legal dispute
with Taylor) and Carlisle
1890's to early 1950's: Geo. T Stagg distillery
Early 1950's to early 1980's: Albert Blanton Distillery and Ancient Age
Distillery (I am not sure when Schenley
actually changed it to Ancient Age, but I think
it was right after Rosenstiel sold the
company.)
Early 1980's: Leestown Distillery
Today it is the Buffalo Trace Distillery.

The name has changed quite a bit with this distillery. The Stagg name was also given to many of the small distilleries owned by Schenley in the 1960's, usually as a prelude to closing them down and selling them. The Stagg name was sort of the "kiss of death" to a Schenley distillery in the 60's.

Thanks, Mike. That was an amusing example (old-hat for many of us, but perhaps a real eye-opener for newly-acquired afficianados). The name I had, Age International, was probably the actual name of one of the Japanese quasi-companies, but not the distillery itself.

That was probably also true of Buffalo Trace, as used by Elmer Lee. I'm still curious, though, as to how the nominal distillery name used ONLY for Elmer Lee products (Elmer T. Lee Single Barrel and Elmer T. Lee 107 Proof) became the official corporate and distillery name? My question still stands... Just how much influence does this particular gentleman (and I intend every bit of honor that word implies) hold on either the distillery, Sazerac, Inc., or both?

John,
Age International is a company, but I don't think that the name was ever on the distillery itself. That is the name of the company on the the three very think volumes in the U D Archive dealing with the sell of the distillery in the early 1980's.

Age International is owned by Takara. BTD/Sazerac is owned by the Goldrings. It is no secret that AI/Takara owns the Blanton's TM (and others). BTD/Sazerac sells AI products in the US. AI does not make anything. BT makes their bourbons for them. The relationship is strictly contractual with no joint ownerships.

Obviously, BT/Sazerac has a huge stake in the AI products, because they are associated with the brands as distiller of record and represent them in the US - and some world markets.

Catahoula

Age International was the name of the corporation, headed by Ferdie Falk, that owned the distillery after Schenley and before Sazerac, but Takara may have been in the picture, financially, even then. When Falk and his partners sold their interest, what remained of Age International, the corporate entity that owns some trademarks and distribution contracts, became wholely owned by Takara.

Whatever the official name of the distillery was during that period, prior to Sazerac's acquisition of it -- and the official name may have been "Fred" for all I know -- everyone there in Frankfort and in the industry called it Ancient Age. The only reason I even say it may have had a different official name during that period is because Mark Brown told me it wasn't ever officially the Ancient Age Distillery, but he either didn't tell me what the name was, or I forgot.

According to "Whiskey, Bourbon, and The Buffalo Trace Distillery - A Primer," which has no author's credits but was almost certainly written by Mark Brown - or at least edited by him, in 1904 the distillery was re-christened the George T. Stagg Distillery. Prior to that it was OFC. I can find no other mention in the time line of a name change even in 1992 when Sazerac bought it. It is possible a name change happened and is not recorded in this document.

I just checked some of my files and found business cards we produced with the name "The Leestown Company, Inc.", so technically the distillery proper may never have actually had a name change until 1999 when it was changed to Buffalo Trace.

The "Ancient Age Distillery" name everyone remembers may be because that was the principle brand made at the distillery then and the brand name on the water tower????

BTW, the same source lists "OFC" as "Old Fire Copper." And the building I mentioned that dated to the seventeen hundreds was built by Commodore Richard Taylor and was called "Riverside." This was 1792.

Catahoula

When the distillery was rebuilt as the OFC distillery by E H Taylor, Jr. the OFC stood for Old Fashioned Copper. I have about a half dozen letters her at the Filson from the Taylor-Hay Family papers where Taylor himself writes that it stood for "Old Fashioned Copper". However when Gregory, of Gregory and Stagg insulted him to the point where he resigned, he started a legal suit against Gregory and Stagg to remove his name from the company which was officially "E H Taylor, Jr. OFC Distillery". It seems that at that point they (Gregory and Stagg) decided to say it stood for "Old Fire Copper". This may have been part of the legal settlement with Taylor, to put more distance between Taylor and the distillery.

I am pretty sure there are documents from the 1960's and 70's in the United Distillers archive from Scenley, that refer to the distillery as the Ancient Age Distillery. Then again that could have been one of its many DBA names.

I think Catahoula has it exactly right, in terms of the comments Mark Brown made to me. There may well have been a series of corporate names that never were reflected in the "official" name of the plant, though it's hard to know for sure what that even means.

On June 1, 1999, Sazerac announced that the Leestown Company Inc. had changes its corporate name to Buffalo Trace Distillery, Inc.

According to, well, me (The Bourbon Country Reader, Volume 4, Number 4), relying primarily on the Sazerac press releases that accompanied the name change announcement, it was the George T. Stagg Distillery from 1900 until 1953, when it was renamed the Albert B. Blanton Distillery. It bore that name until 1969, when it was renamed the Ancient Age Distillery. The Leestown name began to appear in about 1992, which is about when Falk and company left the picture and Sazerac took over.

Leestown was little known and not widely used, since the signs and water tower all still said Ancient Age until 1999.

Mike has it right about OFC. About all I can add is that if you asked anyone at the distillery a decade ago what "OFC" meant, they answered that it either meant "Old-Fashioned Copper" or "Old Fire Copper," as they had seen references to both.

Back on the subject of general ignorance, that Wisconsin article reflects a couple of things that really make me scratch my head, because they are so factually specific while being completely wrong.

For example, who started this idea that "small batch" means fewer than 19 (I have also seen it as 20) barrels? That's so specific and, yet, so completely arbitrary. Who first had that particular divine revelation?

Another one that keeps coming up is that the mash bill for bourbon has to be between 51% and 79% corn. It's a little more clear how that got started, probably with someone misreading the federal regs and seeing that straight corn must be more than 80%, they figured bourbon had to be more than 51% but less than 80%, which isn't true, but I can see where someone would make that mistake.

The other thing I find, because people sometimes come down on me with both feet when I point out these errors, is that matters pertaining to alcohol get very tied up with male egos and telling someone he doesn't know about alcohol insults his masculinity.

Ultimately, though, I think the continuing efforts of many of the folks here are making some headway. I had a long meeting yesterday with a senior VP of one of the major beverage companies and I can tell you that they are starting to get the picture that they are much better off when they get this stuff right. The rather cavalier attitude of some of them is beginning to change.

cowdery wrote:The other thing I find, because people sometimes come down on me with both feet when I point out these errors, is that matters pertaining to alcohol get very tied up with male egos and telling someone he doesn't know about alcohol insults his masculinity.

I know you are fully aware of this, Chuck, but your greatest strength is your credibility and that is closely tied to your integrity. Your 'approach' is often very direct and sensitive people (I include myself here) can be put off by that at times.

But, you have far more to lose, in every sense, than you have to gain by trying to change into a 'softer' Cowdery (I am not suggesting, by the way, that you have entertained any intention of changing.......that would be a bit out of character). I bet that there is not a single person here at BE or on the other site that doubts your commitment to getting as close to the 'truth' as is possible. You have great credibility!

I may not be "fully aware," because I'm still taken aback at times when people get offended. I, of course, always think I'm being helpful.

At this point in my life, I have to say that for the most part, I have decided I can live with it.

I really don't have a mean bone in my body. I can't speak for my other parts, but my bones are very nice.

I appreciate your comments.