BourbonEnthusiast.com

ima thinks it would be neat if distillery gift shops all had a barrel of their bourbon from which you could buy a bottle of uncut/unfiltered whiskey.

I don't know if B.A.T.F. regulations or local laws would permit this kind of transaction, but if they could.....

Maybe they could do something like have a 'barrel proof' label where they can write in the proof on a botte that they supply... then you can fill and seal it yourself.... it would seem to me that it wouldnt be too different from them selling their own bottles in the gift shop... Maybe that would satisfy federal and state agencies? I would think the only difference is that these would be bottled individually one at a time instead of on the bottling line... who knows... I know i'd go for that... especially if they took a couple barrels for you to chose from (maybe the same whiskey but different areas of the warehouse, or different ages??)

Our local brewery (Old Dominion) allows customers to have personal growlers filled and refilled for take-home purposes, which I would think violates alcohol packaging rules. So maybe it's not as far-fetched as it sounds?

Don't kid yourself, it'll never happen. But yes, I'd love to bring a 'doggie-bottle' home from a distillery tour!!

I would be all over that. I think the distributors would put a stop to it because they aren't getting a "taste". But I plan to convince myself that this is possible and dream of it tonight ...

Mike

The big problem is taxes. The government wants to make sure that the three tier system stays in place because there is a different tax at every tier. Selling from the barrel cuts out two different tiers.

Mike Veach

bourbonv wrote: Selling from the barrel cuts out two different tiers.

Mike Veach

Now wouldn't that be a shame?
Joe

The big problem is taxes. The government wants to make sure that the three tier system stays in place because there is a different tax at every tier. Selling from the barrel cuts out two different tiers.

Mike Veach

Mike,
I thought i heard once that the distilleries were permitted to sell limited amounts of their stuff in their gift shop, or was i mistaken?

Is it possible that the stuff BT sells in their gift shop is bottled next door, shipped to a distiller, then bought back by the gift shop (as a seperate 'retailer' entity) at a higher price, then sold to the people who go on the tours?

I know Woodford reserve sold bottles in their gift shop as well, i don't recall if WT did or not..

Chris: don't forget the most obvious gift shop take-home bottle of 'em all: the dip-your-own Maker's Mark.

Yes, BT does sell Rain Vodka and BT at its gift shop, but they take great care not to undercut local retailers' shelf prices. I'd also assume the 2nd-tier people get their cut from those in-house sales as well.

On an interesting side-note: I can get BT cheaper in Maryland than 100 yards from where it's made. Pretty bizarre eh!?

Chris wrote:...Is it possible that the stuff BT sells in their gift shop is bottled next door, shipped to a distiller, then bought back by the gift shop (as a seperate 'retailer' entity) at a higher price, then sold to the people who go on the tours?..

Sort of. According to Ken Weber, while Buffalo Trace doesn't actually ship the bottles they intend to sell at its gift shop to its local distributor, there is paperwork exchanged to document sale/resale between/among them.

I think this generally is the practice here at the Tennessee distilleries, too. In fact, I've been in the retail establishment through which George Dickel 'buys' its product for its gift shop. The distributor opened a can of worms when he allowed that store a single case of the new Distillers Select, which was intended to be a gift-shop-only item -- it's illegal here for a distributor to fail to make an item available to every retailers. Now, it's everywhere!

As Tim said, there is a paperwork trail with all of the taxes paid at all levels for those bottles sold at distilleries. When I was at U.D. they would have to go to the liquor store to get the bottles they gave to the employees every three months, because of the tax regulations. They finally shortened this to simply giving us a certifacte good for a certain amount of money value at the Liquor Outlet on Dixie Highway. The money allowence was only good for U.D. products but at that time I usually went a few dollars over picking up Old Fitzgerald 1849 bottles.

Mike Veach

ima thinks straight from the barrel sales would really benefit a distillery's image as a proactive pro-enthusiast move. While sales wouldn't be strong enough to really effect the bottom line, it would litterally be 'feel good' marketing at it's best. Distillers without any single barrel bottlings such as Maker's Mark would benefit greatly as would Jim Beam.

I'm sure that Kentucky distillers could get whatever state variences that might be needed. Getting the B.A.T.F. to grant a special varience or modify the regulations in some small way to allow such sales is not out of the question.

ima

ima thinks straight from the barrel sales would really benefit a distillery's image as a proactive pro-enthusiast move.

No doubt! Think of all the pilgrimage trips that would be taken just to get those unique distillery-only bottles!

One problem: aren't some of the distilleries in dry counties? (Wikipedia says Woodford Reserve is).

OneCubeOnly wrote:

ima thinks straight from the barrel sales would really benefit a distillery's image as a proactive pro-enthusiast move.

No doubt! Think of all the pilgrimage trips that would be taken just to get those unique distillery-only bottles!

One problem: aren't some of the distilleries in dry counties? (Wikipedia says Woodford Reserve is).

Gary, Woodford Reserve sells their bourbon in their giftshop, but I don't really know if Woodford County is dry or not. I always enjoyed getting a little taste of straight from the barrel bourbon at the dumping trough when you take the tour. I surely would like to have a bottle of that to take home!

Gary, Woodford Reserve sells their bourbon in their giftshop, but I don't really know if Woodford County is dry or not.

According to the Kentucky ABC webpage, Woodford County is actually wet:

http://tinyurl.com/zjv93

The Wikipedia entry for WR says otherwise (and might be incorrect!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodford_Reserve

Woodford County is wet. (See attached map.)

The Kentucky and Tennessee laws that permit souvenir sales at the distilleries supercede the county wet/dry status. Daniel's, for example, can sell the souvenir bottles even though it is in a dry county.

The legislation in both states also requires that the formalities of the three tier system be observed. Although the stock doesn't physically leave the distillery, ownership of it passes to a distributor, then back to the distillery as a specially-licensed retailer.

As long as the customer left the gift shop with a properly sealed bottle, and the distillery accounted for it as they would for any other bottle sold at the gift shop, I don't see any impediment to actually withdrawing it from the barrel in the consumer's presence.

When one of the distilleries starts doing it, I hope they will give Linn proper credit.