Why this flurry of reviews from Mike?

[Mike]

I just hit 50 reviews today (I will always gladly trail the one and only Mike Veach in that category).

I went back over many of them in this last week or so................some were good, some not. But, my tastes have changed over this last year, mostly because I have tried many, many bourbons.

Wouldn't it be nice if I could draw up a nice neat list of best bourbons, but that would do no good, because it would not be yours. Out of the 50 that I have reviewed, I bet I would be happy with 30 of them, maybe even more.

I can truthfully say that I am less sure now about what makes a great bourbon than I was in those early days when I proclaimed that it was ORVW 15 YO that should wear the mythical crown.

At this point, I don't believe there is, or can be, a BEST bourbon. In the world of humans that concept makes no sense. But I sure know a lot of very good ones! One for Monday, another for Tuesday, yet a third for Wednesday, etc, etc.

It really is like that about a whole bunch of stuff now ain't it? The BEST always has a subjective element........after a while, it gets tiring...........

[bourbonv]

Mike,
Congrats on reaching 50 reviews. Personally, I am hoping you do catch up to me. I would like to see several reviews with 75 or 100 reviews of different products. I know of about 6 or 7 non-members of this board that read the reviews faithfully and tell me about them at the Bistro. I would like them to have as many opinions as possible as to what a bourbon brand taste like. By the way, a couple of them are big fans of your reviews.

Welcome to the world of bourbon. I never contribute to a "what is your favorite bourbon" or "Rank your bourbon" type list because they are, in my opinion, nonsense. Bourbon has a rich variety of flavors and tastes that vary greatly from distillery to distillery (or rectifier) and all of them have their place and time. Once in a blue moon I take a hankering for a bourbon and coke and I have some Heaven Hill and some Early Times Kentucky Whiskey here just for that purpose. I like a sweeter bourbon such as one of Julian's products with a dessert or for after dinner, but really like a little Elmer T Lee as a before dinner drink. Wild Turkey is great for sipping while fishing and Weller Centennial is great by the fire on a cold night. I think you will find the same type of thing is happening with you, as you discover all the great bourbons and when you enjoy them most. Don't let price or age fool you and discover what it is about each bourbon that is unique and when that uniqueness is best applied.

Mike Veach

[gillmang]

I have always enjoyed a Manhattan after dinner - its inherent sweetness (Dry Manhattans do not appeal) suits the post-dinner mode. They tend to be made with my complex blends of bourbon, straight ryes and Canadian whiskey. These mixtures are usually about 80% bourbon/ straight rye, 20% Canadian. If they taste a little rough, I add some blend from another bottle, or two: if it is still refractory I add some 10 year old Canadian whisky I use for the purpose - it smooths out almost any straight-whiskey mixture, "softens" it that little bit which makes them mouth-soft yet very rich in taste. The Canadian "fix" never fails. These Manhattans may incorporate 40 or 50 bourbons and other whiskies, and they taste just great. I use about 4:1 whiskey to vermouth (sometimes a bit more vermouth) with a few drops of Peychaud's and Collins orange bitters. One cherry (Maker's Mark brand with extra peronal-blend whisky poured in the jar). Any Manhattan well made is good but mine (if I may say) are superlative because of the complexity of the whiskey base.

Gary

P.S. No ice.

[doubleblank]

I disagree Mike....I have no problem saying which bourbons I like and which ones I dislike. I have no problem making a top ten list....and I'll tell you why I don't like the ones that don't make the list. Now within my top ten.....they all have their time and place....but not all bourbons have a time and place in my life. EW 1783 has a distinctive taste...but I don't like it and wont ever will. ORVW 15/107 always has a place in my collection. There isn't a best bourbon for everyone......but I definitely have a short list.

Randy

[Mike]

I disagree Mike....I have no problem saying which bourbons I like and which ones I dislike. I have no problem making a top ten list....and I'll tell you why I don't like the ones that don't make the list. Randy

Well, shucks Randy, you are entitled to your wrong opinion (just kidding). My wife is like that in regard to chocolate, and other foods, she has definite short lists. I am less discriminating than she is.

And, truth be told, I do have a list (maybe not as short as yours) of bourbons that I prefer, and it does include ORVW 15 YO. For me to infer otherwise is not being completely honest.

But I like and enjoy some bourbons now that I would have turned up my nose at a year or so ago. I don't just like the sweeter bourbons as I once did.

[bourbonv]

Randy,
I think it is wonderfull when people disagree with me. That is what leads to debate, and debate leads to new knowledge all around and that is what we are all here for, right? Some of my best trains of thought, historically and taste wise comes from spending a day with John Lipman, who always disagrees with me - even when he really doesn't - just for the sake of debate.

I think it is great that you have your list, but be honest here and tell me if that list is the same as the list you made a year ago? Two years ago? Five Years ago? I will be suprised if it has not changed and even more suprised if there is not one that has you scratching your head saying "What was I thinking?"

I would be more inclined to make a list of whiskeys I do not like. I feel the same way as you do on a couple except mine are the Elijah Craig products, not the Evan William 1783. They have a sour finish that leaves me wanting to use mouth wash after drinking one. I do not care for them, but I know many people who do and that is fine. I respect their opinions and taste.

Mike and Randy, you should keep your short lists and write them down. Every six months or so you should go back and re-examine the list and see if you still agree. For my part I will not worry about lists. I find nothing superior about Pappy 15 over Elmer T Lee or Four Roses Single Barrel. They are all great bourbons that have their time and place.\

Mike Veach
P.S.
Gary,
That Manhattan sounds great.

[gillmang]

Returned from my digression on after dinner bourbons/bourbon cocktails I have to enter a vote for Randy's view with great respect for how the two Mikes see it.

There are a number of bourbons that I find I can't sample any more with any real pleasure. The 1783 is a good example, I find it has a pungent, unusual flavor. Most wheat recipe bourbons can now be left aside (I find them too light) except ORVW bourbons which by their age acquire good complexity. Jim Beam White label usually fails to please, much as I want to like it (it is a great name in bourbon and bourbon history). Jim Black black label occasionally pleases, as I have noted elsewhere. The big guns for me - ETL, EC 18 year old, Four Roses Single Barrel, Buffalo Trace and others - show their worth by their balanced and consistent good taste. But this leave many other "middling" bourbons that may not make a top ten but are good whiskeys worth sampling, e.g., I like Fighting Cock, Wild Turkey and countless others - it is more these that fall in the category Mike Veach identifies of a bourbon for every mood. All bourbon is good; all of our tastes are valid, but each has his own likes and dislikes and this to me seems to justify a top ten.

Gary

[gillmang]

Just to pick up on a point Mike Veach has made I don't think my tastes have ever really changed. I always liked ETL; still do. Always liked ORVW rye; still do except some of the later bottlings of the FR 13 year old (which seem different in taste to the earlier ones, older-tasting perhaps). Always liked FRSB; still do. Never found the current Beam white that interesting; still don't. Never found the current Grandad range (except the odd bottle of OG 86 which sometimes gets that fruity note I like) that great; still don't. Woodford perhaps has come on and off the list, so has Overholt, but that is because I feel the bottlings have varied over the years.

Mike Veach, thanks for your comment on my Manhattans. I think you would really like them, they have the smoothness (I dislike that word but don't know what else to say) of Canadian whisky Manhattans but with the richness of bourbon and straight rye whiskey which form most of the blend. I'll bring some down at Sampler time.

Gary

[bourbonv]

Gary,
It sounds like you agree with me more than you think. For example you state that wheated bourbons, for the most part can "now" be left off your list. I would assume that one point they were on your list and "now" they are, for you, a "What was I thinking?" brand.

Mike Veach

[gillmang]

Well, you may have a point because at one time I really liked, say, Maker's Mark and Old Fitzgerald and now I don't care for them much. But I have a possible out, Mike: these brands arguably taste different than 25 years ago. And I think you agree with me there.

Gary

[Mike]

These Manhattans may incorporate 40 or 50 bourbons and other whiskies, and they taste just great. I use about 4:1 whiskey to vermouth (sometimes a bit more vermouth) with a few drops of Peychaud's and Collins orange bitters. One cherry (Maker's Mark brand with extra peronal-blend whisky poured in the jar). Any Manhattan well made is good but mine (if I may say) are superlative because of the complexity of the whiskey base.

Gary

P.S. No ice.

Gary,

I would love to watch you make one of these Manhattans (do you put on a Manhattan making outfit?), and taste the fruits (bad word) of your labor. As you say, it is complex and seems like it almost takes on the trappings of a ritual (that is why I asked about an outfit). You obviously spare no effort or expense and I am sure the outcome is great!

[gillmang]

No ritual is involved, really, and those earlier images on the board of a mad scientist working away at his formulae and instructing assistants are very far from the truth. I simply grab a bottle of a current blend, pour, taste, if not balanced I add whiskey from another own-blend, taste, if not right I'll adjust with some Canadian whisky or maybe vodka or American blended, to "display" the straights in my blends (good Scots blending term), add the vermouth, then the bitters, and away we go.

The only care I really take is with the bitters - I believe in adding only a little, too much makes the drink too bitter/acrid. But the drinks are very good and I believe this is because of the very complex straight whiskey tastes underpinning the drink. Oddly perhaps (or not), I almost never drink the blends neat, they are used only for cocktails. I do sample many whiskeys neat but usually they are the original brands. Sometimes I'll sample neat for a while a blend made from all straight whiskeys, but inevitably it gets turned into a much more complex "cocktail" whiskey.

Gary

[doubleblank]

Hey Mike....Absolutely my list changes from time to time. But those changes have been a result of being exposed to more whiskies as my experience with bourbon has grown. I haven't had a "what was I thinking when I bought a case of this" type of experience yet...but I understand how that can happen. It happens with wine all the time...that cheap wine at the cafe in Tuscany was great...as long as your drinking and eating there! For some reason it doesn't taste as special back in Houston.

And your probably right in that a list of bourbons you dislike is easier to make and rather inflexible over time. But when asked by friends which bourbons I enjoy and would recommend to them, I'll definitely have an answer for them.

Randy

[bourbonv]

Gary,
I agree the taste of wheaters has changed over the last 25 years. Even so, it does seem that your tastes have changed as well. I still love my Weller Centennial on a cold afternoon like yesterday, with the snow blowing in a stiff wind. If you ask at that moment what my favorite bourbon is, I would say Weller Centennial. Ask me in the summer and you would get a completely different answer. That is the magic of bourbon in that it does have a wide range of taste and styles. I don't think it fair to say that Brand "X" is superior to Brand "Y" when they may have a completely different set of goals for their flavor profile.

Randy,
I too can quickly name some great bourbons for people if they ask for suggestions. I usually find out what they like in style (Sweet and mild, flavorfull and robust, or extra aged) and then give them five or six choices. I also rarely recommend the high end "super premium" brands because most have a lower priced product that meets that flavor profile. It gives them an affordable alternative that they appreciate.

Mike Veach