J.T.S. Brown -- Not Just For Billiards Anymore

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J.T.S. Brown -- Not Just For Billiards Anymore

Unread postby Strayed » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:08 pm

KBuzbee, from a different website wrote: ... I just tried this last night. JTS Brown Bottled in Bond. 100 proof. D.S.P KY 31 UPC 96749 21130. This was good! I wasn't really expecting much from it but it was quite good. In all this discussion I didn't read many "impressions". I'm going to revisit this tonight and see if last night was a fluke. If not, I may have to pick up a few more of these.

Ken, that is SO strange. I have a bottle of 80-proof J.T.S.Brown (current, HH imitation version), which I've tried once and never again, and a bottle of 100-proof BIB (also HH) which I've left unopened. Last week, while shopping at our favorite liquor store (http://www.thepartysource.com) for my regular mixing whiskey, Dowling Deluxe 100, I found 1.75 liter bottles of J.T.S.Brown for the same $19.99 and thought, "hey, maybe I'll try this instead". And I have to say I agree with you 100%. This cheap whiskey is quite appropriate for sipping neat!

The original Dowling was an Anderson County bourbon and so was J.T.S.Brown. They may even have been distilled at the same distillery (which also MIGHT have been the one now known as Wild Turkey or Boulevard). It's hard to say, because the Ripy brothers had several distilleries in the area. And, of course, we have no way of knowing whether they were ever similar-tasting. But J.T.S.Brown 100-proof tastes nothing at all like Dowling Deluxe 100-proof. All I can say about J.T.S.Brown is, "Okay, I'm ready. Where's my pool cue?"
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Unread postby kbuzbee » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:26 pm

Thanks for the validation John. For a bit there I thought I must be losing my mind (not to mention the confusion brought by having an SB post replied to here!! All too high tech for me, I'm afraid! ;)

Second interesting point. It tastes like Wild Turkey to me! It's odd/funny/interesting you would bring up that exact reference. Anyway, I'm definately getting a couple more bottles of this.

Thanks!!

Ken
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Unread postby angelshare » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:02 pm

Tina and I finished a bottle very recently that we picked up in KY in 2004. We both liked it. Unfortunately, the BIB is not available in VA. Actually, I think it has significant similarities to Fighting Cock and Old HH BIB, both of which I like also. Never picked up on the WT similarity...will have to do a side by side sometime!
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:27 pm

John,
What is the DSP Number on the Bottled in Bond? I assume it will be DSP1 unless it is older than 4 years old. It could be some of the whiskey made on contract for Heaven Hill when they did not have their own distillery.
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Unread postby Strayed » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:24 pm

bourbonv wrote:John,
What is the DSP Number on the Bottled in Bond? I assume it will be DSP1 unless it is older than 4 years old. It could be some of the whiskey made on contract for Heaven Hill when they did not have their own distillery.
Mike Veach

That's a great call!
Mike Veach, Forensic Bourbon-Sleuth, hits home again!

However, not without a price...
You will simply not BELIEVE what some of us will go through in the name of Bourbon Research! You see...

The bottle is empty :40oz:

And tonight is Trash Night :pottytrain5:

I hope my neighbors had a good time watching me dig through three bags of garbage looking for that bottle! :lurk:
And I'm really glad no one asked me what I was doing; at least I didn't have to say I was pawing my way through the catfood cans and coffee grounds looking for a d@#& whiskey bottle!!
:whistle: :clapthumbsup: :rofl2: :drool: :laughing5: :clapthumbsup: :laughing9:

And all for naught. That bottle apparently went out with last week's trash.
I do have that unopened one, though. So I opened it.
This one appears to be from 2000, and was distilled at Stonegate, DSP 31 (a common nom-de-distill for HH) and bottled by J.T.S.Brown's Son Co. DSP 31.
I completely agree with Dave. Very much Fighting Cock and Old HH BIB. This doesn't taste like the one I put away last week. Since it's 5 years old, the good-tasting one was probably distilled at Bernheim. Of course, the God of BATF might have had mercy on the Shapira brothers and not forced them to apply for new labels yet. And it could contain whiskey from stock made at Early Times or Beam. I'll just have to get another bottle and see!
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Unread postby bunghole » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:37 am

HUH?????


And your point would be..................????????????????

:roll:
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Unread postby kbuzbee » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:06 pm

I've had two bottles of JTS Brown. The first I bought a few months ago:

UPC 96749 21130
Distilled by J.T.S. Brown's Son Company reg Dist 31 of KY
Bottled by J.T.S. Brown's Son Company Bardstown Kentucky D.S.P. KY 31
The neck is gold with diagonal red cursive writing Distilled and Bottled in over black letter printed KENTUCKY.

The label on the back had all the distilled and bottled data and:

Distilled and bottled in Kentucky. The heart of the Bourbon country. Famous for generations for fine Bourbon. Made from a time honored formula by master craftsmen and from the finest ingredients obtainable. Stored under ideal conditions in new properly seasoned charred white oak barrels

For an $11 bottle of Bourbon, this was fantastic. So when it ran out last night I went for a replacement. It is labeled slightly differently:

UPC 96749 53137
Distilled by Heaven Hill Distilleries, Inc. D.S.P. Ky 31
Bottled by J.T.S. Brown's Son Company Bardstown Kentucky D.S.P. KY 31
The neck band is red with J.T.S. Brown in White letters over a white 100 in a black circle over Bottled in Bond in white over UNDER U.S. GOVERNMENT SUPERVISION over a gold ring with black 100 PROOF.

The label on the back had all the distilled and bottled data and the Surgeon General's warning. No prosaic discriptions.

I will post impressions when I try it but are these the same or different (the actual whisky)?? From the glass I would guess the first one was bottled in 03 and the second one in 04. I sure hope the second is as good as the first one was.

Thanks for any insight.

Ken
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Will the REAL Son-of-a-Brown Please Stand Up?

Unread postby Strayed » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:19 pm

My, my. This IS getting interesting. The example I have is different from either of those.

same UPC as your 2nd bottle: 96749 53137
Distilled by The Stonegate Distillery
D.S.P. Ky 31, Bardstown Ky 400004
Bottled by J.T.S. Brown's Son Company
D.S.P. Ky 31, Bardstown Ky 400004

The neck band on mine is also red and conforms with your description of your 2nd bottle, except that the black circle contains "5 Years Old". All the other elements are the same. The back label also contained all the generic data, but without the Surgeon General's warning (which is on the neckband), and also without the descriptive stuff.

Now, I believe Heaven Hill does own the J.T.S. Brown's Son brand. And I also know that they often use the name Stonegate Distillery. I don't know if that's their own alias for the distillery, or if that's actually a customer of theirs who ALSO markets the brand (HH offers its customers a number of very creative arrangements, and that could be one).

"Adjusting" the name of the bottling company to the brand being bottled is a pretty straightforward affair, despite the cute custom of hanging a cardboard sign on the bottling line while that product is being run, claiming that the plant is now such-and-such. I think the distilling origin may be a little touchier, especially for BIB. Notice that Stonegate Distillery and Heaven Hill Distilleries, Inc. are designated as DSP KY 31 (Distilled Spirit Plant #31 in Kentucky). That is the Heaven Hill distillery in Bardstown. And notice that the J.T.S.Brown's Sons BOTTLING PLANT is also rightfully listed as DSP 31, because that's where the bottles were filled (and also where the bonded warehouses are).

But the J.T.S.Brown's Son where the whiskey was DISTILLED, as shown on your first bottle, is NOT DSP 31, but something that appears to mean Registered, or Regulated, or maybe even Regenerated, in "Dist 31 of KY". Now Mike is probably laughing his head off right now, because he already knows the answer here... There is no BATF or Internal Revenue district 31 in Kentucky or anywhere else; but there IS the 31st Congressional District in Kentucky.

And wouldn't you like to know where that is, kids?

Jefferson County.

Uh... gee, Bullwinkle, that would be Louisville (Bernheim, DSP1), and it would also include Shively (Early Times, DSP 354).

Now, while some people might think it just a bit unusual for a federally-bonded distillery to provide its Congressional district as part of the required label disclosures, in place of its legal DSP# , I'm sure that was only intended to be informative and not due to any similarities to the DSP 31 identification one might otherwise have expected to see there. :wink:
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Unread postby kbuzbee » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:04 pm

And... they do taste different! The newer bottle is not quite as full as the older bottle. Less rye, less anise, not quite as much mouth feel. Still good and if I'd only tried this I would say it was better than I'd expected an $11 bottle to be. But it isn't quite as good as the older bottle. I'm going to have to sweep the area to see if there are any more of these older bottles somewhere.

Interesting your bottle said 5 yo. Neither of mine has an age. And the Surgeon General's warning was on the neck as well, which I found odd.

Ken

PS - happened on ellenjaye.com today. Nice job!!
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Unread postby Strayed » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:01 pm

There might also be differences in bottlings for different states. For example, in Ohio we can't get AAA 10-year old, only the noticeably inferior AAA 10-Star (which you can't get in Kentucky). The labels look very similar with only minor differences, but the Kentucky version says "Full Ten Years Old" along with a big red "10"; the 10-Star shares the big "10", but just says "star" under it. Actually, 10-Star is just over half that old. My old bottle of J.T.S.Brown was probably 5 years old in its Kentucky version (I believe I bought it in Covington), and the Ohio version was probably only four.

Like you, I went out and bought another of the new ones today. First thing I did was try it and I can confirm this is the same as the current one I had before. It also has "100" in the black circle, so I guess the 5-year version is no more, even in KY. There is a Surgeon General's statement on the back label AND one on the neckband -- I guess they didn't want to take any chances that I might inadvertantly get pregnant and try to operate machinery. Sometimes bourbon'll do that to ya; just can't be too careful.

I prefer this version, by the way. Probably for the very same reasons you like the older one. I enjoy Fighting Cock, although I like the 8-year old version you can still sometimes find (it has a paper label, not the clear plastic one) MUCH better than the 6-year old. And I don't care for HH's BIB much at all. It's those anise/mint/sage(?) flavors that you appreciate that I'd do better without, and (fortunately for me, but an unfortunate change for you) they're very subdued in the newer version.

Actually, what this version of J.T.S.Brown reminds me of is the earlier versions HH's (or maybe it was U.D.'s?) Bernheim Old Fitzgerald BIB. HH's Old Fitz has more of the signature HH profile now than it did when they first started selling it. I wonder if they pulled all the remaining UD stock and put it into other, less prominent brands, such as this one. If that's the case, take heart -- you'll eventually get your preferred profile back once this stock is gone. Until then, I'll enjoy a tasty cheap bourbon with some of the sweet characteristics of AAA 10 year old, but younger and with more "in your face"-ness.

Relating back to what gets put on the label, though, I'm still curious as to how a 4-year-old BOTTLED-IN-BOND bourbon (i.e., all from the same half/year; all from the same distillery) can be bottled from whiskey made at a distillery that burnt to the ground eight years ago. If it weren't BIB, I could think, okay -- the youngest whiskey has to be at least four years old, but much of this whiskey could be considerably older. But that doesn't work for BIB. So what gives? Chuck? Anyone with some background in distillery law?

Meanwhile, I'll just enjoy this while it lasts, and Ken can anticipate it turning more toward his preference as this stock runs out.

Oh! And THANKS for the plug!!
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Unread postby kbuzbee » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:24 pm

Strayed wrote:Relating back to what gets put on the label, though, I'm still curious as to how a 4-year-old BOTTLED-IN-BOND bourbon (i.e., all from the same half/year; all from the same distillery) can be bottled from whiskey made at a distillery that burnt to the ground eight years ago. If it weren't BIB, I could think, okay -- the youngest whiskey has to be at least four years old, but much of this whiskey could be considerably older. But that doesn't work for BIB. So what gives? Chuck? Anyone with some background in distillery law?

Meanwhile, I'll just enjoy this while it lasts, and Ken can anticipate it turning more toward his preference as this stock runs out.


That IS good news. I hope it works out that way.

RE: the label, that is very odd. I hope someone has some ideas to throw in here.


Oh! And THANKS for the plug!!


No problem. It was kinda funny, my wife was scrapbooking our trip this fall and had a question on Maker's Mark. I googled it and it returned ellenjaye.com. I thought, 'that's John's, well, let's go have a look see!' By the way, Arlene likes it too (and she is WAY more creative/artistic than I am.)

Ken
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Unread postby HondoJohn » Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:18 am

Friends & neighbors,

Hmmmmm! JTS Brown is my favorite bourbon and has been for better than 20 years. Now I cannot tell the various "nuances" in bourbon but I know what I like. And I mix mine with water...sorry that is just the way I do things. I now reside in Llano county, Texas, getting on in years so I take my pleasures where I can find them. JTS is definitely one of my pleasures along with a good pipe about sunset watching the day fade.

Don't get much better than this!

Ol' John

PS Mark Twain said it right.."There ain't no such thing as too much good whiskey!" Words to live by!
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Unread postby kbuzbee » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:47 am

Hey John, welcome to the board. I used to live in Texas. Lived in Katy but worked in the Permian Basin most weeks. Where is Llano??

I surely agree with all you sentiments!

Have a very merry Christmas.

Ken
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Unread postby HondoJohn » Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:39 pm

Ken,

Thanks for the reply and well wishes for the Christmas/Holiday season and my return wishes to you and yours also.

Been thru Katy a number of times and stopped once or twice for grub!

Llano is about 100 miles west of Austin......Deer Capital of Texas and unique in that it is granite country rather than limestone like most of Texas.

Have a safe holiday, neighbor!

Ol' John
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