Bourbon!

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Bourbon!

Unread postby Mike » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:00 pm

I know a bit about bourbon. What I know is limited by my palate, which is not as keen as many others on BourbonEnthusisast, but it is passable. It is good enough, at least most of the time (I think) to distinguish twixt a good bourbon and a great bourbon, but if you think I would bet my farm (which I ain't got anyway) on that premise, you would be mistook.

I can and do appreciate the bourbons that are rich with barrel flavors, which usually means high proof or barrel proof cut to the limits of my own palate. And, more than most I seem to appreciate the benefits (benefits you say?) of extra ageing.

So, I have before me a bourbon for which I paid (with a small discount) less than $10. It is Ezra Brooks 90 proof (from Heaven Hill distilleries, I believe) and I am throwing it up agin a bourbon that would cost you probably $250 +, if you can find it. That would be A.H. Hirsch 16 YO.

I have before me two glasses ($1 from IKEA that are perfect for bourbon tasting) and I do not know which contains the Hirsch and which contains the Ezra (really I don't know) and I offer (for your benefit) this side by side to see if one is superior to the other.

The Ezra is easily distinguishable, although quite good bourbon it has an edge, especially in the finish, that is sharp. Is the Hirsch 25 times as good. Well, certainly not. Fortunately, when the Hirsch was selling at about $79, I put back several bottles.

So, is it 8 times as good as the Ezra, a 6 year old Heaven Hill bourbon that wins No prizes, ever? Well, that is the $70 question. The answer lies in the infamous realm of the subjective. I would not pay the asking price now for A H Hirsch bourbon (if I could find any), nor would I pay the asking price (if I could find any) for the Van Winkle bourbons. I have a bit left of several Van Winkle bourbons, probably the last I will ever own. I am willing to pay around $90 for the Heaven Hill Parker's Heritage Bourbons (if you can find them) because they are exceptional (really exceptional). But that is outside the current discussion, nicht wahr?

If economic circumstance should change so that it is beyond my financial ability to occasionally purchase whiskey at $90 a bottle, I would not be unhappy to enjoy a bottle of Ezra Brooks 90 proof bourbon at around $10 or so and use my memory to supplement its taste.

I am not a bourbon snob (or am I?). The great American writer (who may well have been an SOB personally), William Faulkner, said that if only Scotch were available, that is what he would drink. Me too!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:10 pm

i hold firm to my belief that no whisky, or any drink for that matter, is worth over $50 a 750. its my own principle, for which i get into many arguments on other bourbon sites. I think it foolish to pay >$50 when there is such a good selection below that mark. But, the fact that people will not only pay it, but claw at each other and wait in lines for such-n-such illustrates that there are others out there who ARE willing to pay it. They wont be fighting me over it!

I believe that 90 proof Ezra is going away Mike, so you may wanna load up. While ive never had any, i have noticed a sneaky dirty trick of theirs lately.....as the 90 proof Ezra 90 sells off and is restocked, the new replacements are still called Ezra 90, with a big '90' in a circle on the top center of the label, but in fine print on the bottom, it states '80 proof'.........dirty underhanded trick, if you ask me.

I have tried the Ezra 7/101, but didnt like it enough to buy it again, at its price. at $18-ish, i dont think it is twice as good as HH BIB. I have yet to try the Ezra 12/99. I am hesitant at its $36 price tag to give it a shot. I will probably try it one day when I am at a nice dinner and see it on the list. However, at those kinda places, i usually just order a Bookers and be quite happy with it, knowing Im getting something that i truly enjoy.
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby RandyG » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:21 pm

I'll go against the grain a lil here and say that I do consider some bourbons costing over $50 to be worth it. Two years ago I was able to obtain three bottles of Pappy Van Winkle 15 YO and I feel they were worth the $55 I got them for. That being said, I did not get any last year but my neighbor did. He also had to pay a premium, $80 I think. To this day, I cannot say whether or not I would pay this much for my beloved Pappy. That same year I picked up a 2010 BTAC William Larue Weller. I bought 2 bottles, although they were outside my comfort zone, priced at $75. I still feel they were worth the price. Since I was not able to get any said Pappy last year I went outside of my comfort zone once again, picking up both some Jefferson 18 YO and Four Roses Ltd. Ed. Small Batch. Both were $80. These are exceptional bourbons. Are they worth the price? Not sure, but I'm glad they are on the shelf, with a couple in safety reserve.

OK, how can I begin to think that ANY bourbon is worth $60-$80 a bottle, when there are so many great bourbons available for less than $50? If I were only a bourbon drinker, I'm not sure that I could answer this question and maintain my integrity. But, as many here, I happen to enjoy other spirits as well. Compared to Scotch and Tequila, even $80 bourbons seem like a bargain. There are a few tequilas out there under $50 that are exceptional, but not many. Scotch is even worse. Then there's cognac. There are some good cognacs out there less than $50 but the great ones tend to be a little more.

All that said, I would say the vast majority of my spirit allocation is spent on bourbons in the $30 to $40 range. Bourbons such as Rare Breed, Rowan's Creek, Kentucky Spirit, Willet Pot Still Reserve, Woodford Reserve, etc. These, to me represent the greatest bargains in the spirit world.

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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:01 am

thats just MY opinion.

but, i am in a transition as a student into a totally different line of work and coming up on 40. The funds are tighter now than theyve been in years. but then again, i have always been the kind of guy who thinks of every purchase in opportunity costs. hmmmmmmmmm.....that $120 big-hype 750ml of such-n-such, OR three bottles of one of my favorites, or an entire case of on of my trusted daily BIB's. when you think like that, the pricey one loses out every time.

plus, as the saying goes..."you dont know what youre missing if you dont try it". id be rather upset if i actually did drop that kinda money on something, and its enjoyment took the enjoyment away from my regular favorites from then on.

maybe im just cheap though.......
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby JLH3 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:19 am

I got into the drinking good bourbon game late. But I've managed to get ahold of some nice bourbon. I have hidden the the back of my booze stash a PVW 20 from last year. I bought it to replace one I drank and with the knowledge it might be the last of the 20's with all SW juice. Now I have no idea what would be a good enough reason to open it, but I look forward to finding out.
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby RandyG » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:19 am

393foureyedfox wrote:thats just MY opinion.

RG: and I respect you and everyone else that has a hard time justifying the cost of some of these premium bourbons. Heck, I just saw a Jack Daniels white whiskey on the shelf for $65! Really? $65 for an unaged whiskey. I'll never buy it but I'm sure there's people out there that would. I'm glad there is such a wide variety of spirits out there. It keeps all of us happy :mrgreen:

but, i am in a transition as a student into a totally different line of work and coming up on 40. The funds are tighter now than theyve been in years. but then again, i have always been the kind of guy who thinks of every purchase in opportunity costs. hmmmmmmmmm.....that $120 big-hype 750ml of such-n-such, OR three bottles of one of my favorites, or an entire case of on of my trusted daily BIB's. when you think like that, the pricey one loses out every time.

RG: I'm just about to turn 50 and it's looking like I will likely lose my job within the next year or so. After that, I'll probably have the same mindset as you. Good luck with your schooling!

plus, as the saying goes..."you dont know what youre missing if you dont try it". id be rather upset if i actually did drop that kinda money on something, and its enjoyment took the enjoyment away from my regular favorites from then on.

RG: Definately know what your sayin here. The worst one was a $60 tequila that was highly regarded on all the internet sites. It was the most sour vulgar spirit I have ever had the misfortune to try. Of course I had to order 2 bottles of it. Fortunately though, the store manager was kind enough to take back the second bottle, even though I had special ordered it.

maybe im just cheap though.......
Last edited by RandyG on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby Birdo » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:41 pm

I have found that I like a particular type of bourbon. Traditional rye mash bill, aged 4-8 years and bottled at around 100 proof. There are many choices that meet this description that I enjoy.

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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby devilscut » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Hey RandyG, try using something other than blue text. You can hardly read it.
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby PollardsVision » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:05 pm

393foureyedfox wrote:thats just MY opinion.

but, i am in a transition as a student into a totally different line of work and coming up on 40. The funds are tighter now than theyve been in years. but then again, i have always been the kind of guy who thinks of every purchase in opportunity costs. hmmmmmmmmm.....that $120 big-hype 750ml of such-n-such, OR three bottles of one of my favorites, or an entire case of on of my trusted daily BIB's. when you think like that, the pricey one loses out every time.

plus, as the saying goes..."you dont know what youre missing if you dont try it". id be rather upset if i actually did drop that kinda money on something, and its enjoyment took the enjoyment away from my regular favorites from then on.

maybe im just cheap though.......


My feelings mirror this.

I've tried a few bourbons over $40, but everytime I consider buying one, I always have a hard time believing it's worth 2-3 bottles of OGD100.
I'm sure there's a whole world of great whiskey I miss out on, but I really don't have the money to explore that world regularly. If they really were that much better, I'd sort of rather just not know.

I don't feel like I'm missing out though. I could just cycle through all the wonderful under $30 bourbons/ryes and never feel like I'm hurting for variety, and certainly not quality.
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Re: Bourbon!

Unread postby Mike » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:41 pm

PollardsVision wrote:
393foureyedfox wrote:thats just MY opinion.

but, i am in a transition as a student into a totally different line of work and coming up on 40. The funds are tighter now than theyve been in years. but then again, i have always been the kind of guy who thinks of every purchase in opportunity costs. hmmmmmmmmm.....that $120 big-hype 750ml of such-n-such, OR three bottles of one of my favorites, or an entire case of on of my trusted daily BIB's. when you think like that, the pricey one loses out every time.

plus, as the saying goes..."you dont know what youre missing if you dont try it". id be rather upset if i actually did drop that kinda money on something, and its enjoyment took the enjoyment away from my regular favorites from then on.

maybe im just cheap though.......


My feelings mirror this.

I've tried a few bourbons over $40, but everytime I consider buying one, I always have a hard time believing it's worth 2-3 bottles of OGD100.
I'm sure there's a whole world of great whiskey I miss out on, but I really don't have the money to explore that world regularly. If they really were that much better, I'd sort of rather just not know.

I don't feel like I'm missing out though. I could just cycle through all the wonderful under $30 bourbons/ryes and never feel like I'm hurting for variety, and certainly not quality.


And you probably are not missing out. What you say makes excellent sense and obviously suits you just fine. I have spent a considerable amount of money on bourbon pursuing I do not know what. In fact, it is fair to say that I have spent my life pursuing I do not know what. In that regard I would not change a thing and would no doubt do the same things again were I given the chance to do it over.

Just as tastes are different, people are different. One of the things most appealing about this site to me is that people are allowed to be different in their tastes without it being a challenge to others with different tastes. On occasion, we have had a few people who were insistent that their views were the only correct ones, but they pretty much wore themselves out and departed. I will defend my taste in bourbons, as you do, but I learned a long time ago that nothing good can come from insisting that others should be like me.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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