A surprising vatting........ still learning

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A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby Mike » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:27 pm

I have done a fair amount of vatting of whiskies. Usually to achieve a certain taste at which I aim (sometimes works, sometimes not). Recently, Gary Gillman (Vatman) suggested combining two good whiskies to achieve something better than either of them individually. He suggested 3 parts Larceny to 1 part Devil's Cut. I made this vatting and liked it so much that I took all the remaining Larceny and vatted it with 1/3 the amount of Devil's Cut.

Exactly where this idea of Gary's came from (a lot of experience, perhaps?), I am not sure, but it worked well. So what I aimed at in the vatting I have just done, was not something better than either of the constituents (both are first rate whiskies), but something different, and hopefully as good as the individual constituents.

I took 25 ml of Four Roses Single Barrel (100 proof) and 25 ml of Jack Daniel's Holiday Select 2011 (100 proof) and 5 ml of filtered water and vatted them. The result is 91 proof and is a quite sweet, quite spicy, whiskey that is pretty delicate. I could be fooled into thinking it has a goodly portion of malt, such is its sweetness nicely 'rounded'.

The upfront rich sweetness is completely separate from the spicy mid-palate, and they hold hands as they take a bow and leave the stage, only to come back in an encore.

The two constituents of this vatting are both superb whiskies in their own right, and justly celebrated (I think the JD Holiday Select is the same whiskey as JD Silver Select, which is not available in the US under the Silver Select label). But the vatting, as one would hope, takes advantage of the best of both. From the FRSB comes the spice and fruit, from the JD comes the softer sweetness.

Out of curiosity, I cut the proof in this vatting to 80. The sweetness (softer still) and the spice are still persistent, but the richness has diminished to the degree that the loss is significant, and not good. Still, I would put it up against any 80 proof whiskey in the world, and expect it to be judged their equal.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby gillmang » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:13 pm

That does sound very good Mike. I might try it, I have some Jack Single barrel which might get me close enough for that part.

How did I think of the Larceny-Devil's Cut caper? It is intuitive, projectional. One whisky is bland and a little acidic (typical of HH Fitzgerald although better than that). The other is over the top sweet and rye-yeasty. Blend them, and you add richness and flavour to the former while cutting back the "high" flavour of the Devil's Cut. Like if you cooked some venison slowly in a wine sauce to leach out some of the hautgout as its called, or perhaps venison and veal would be a better analogy. Rich and bland, spicy and sweet. Like cooking, blend in the right proportions.

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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby Birdo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:33 am

A bad vat: Evan Williams Black and Makers. The 50/50 mix of the two was worse than either by itself. Good thing I only made one drink. I guess you have to start with good whiskey. Tasted like chemicals. Will save these two bottles for mixing with coke for house guests.
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:46 am

Birdo wrote:A bad vat: Evan Williams Black and Makers. Will save these two bottles for mixing with coke for house guests.



thats about all theyre good for, to me at least. makers is both overpriced and not good (to me).
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby Squire » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:04 pm

I've had worse.
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby Bob Barker » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:24 pm

393foureyedfox wrote:
Birdo wrote:A bad vat: Evan Williams Black and Makers. Will save these two bottles for mixing with coke for house guests.



thats about all theyre good for, to me at least. makers is both overpriced and not good (to me).


Ill agree that vatting is bad as I tried it out of curious ivy and wow it's bad. The two bourbons by themselves are good especially the Evan which is a great value whiskey. Makers is just average, but I will agree it tends to be overpriced.
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby Birdo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:45 am

I have had good vatting, but it starts with good whiskey.
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Re: A surprising vatting........ still learning

Unread postby gillmang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:25 am

I take a different view of that, and e.g. Mike, since I know you like to try different things, if you have any young corn-tinged bourbon around - one of the 36 months old lower-shelfs you can buy, say - try blending that 1 part to 1 each of a medium-quality (say Larceny or MM or 4R Yellow Label) and heavy-bodied woody whiskey (almost anything works 8-10 years old or more and high proofs are good to boost the ABV of the first two). What I find is the oily quality of the young bourbon adds body and richness to the vatting but its "objectionable" taste disappears. You have to tinker with the proportions sometimes. I once did this with Banker's Club as the base (I think the handle cost $14.00) and it was superb, indeed Banker's Club is not a good example because it tasted just fine on its own but I mention it as a distinctly lower shelf product.

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