Old Nutwood Bourbon Whiskey from 1893

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Old Nutwood Bourbon Whiskey from 1893

Unread postby Old Man Bourbon » Thu May 17, 2007 2:42 pm

Hi,

who knows more information
over this old bottle of Bourbonwhisky?

Old Nutwood Bourbon Whiskey from 1893,
W.H.Thomas Son Co. , Louisville , Kentucky

Thanks,

Old Man Bourbon



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Unread postby gillmang » Thu May 17, 2007 3:39 pm

Omigosh that looks great! I'll let the industry historians like Mike and John explain any data they have on the producer or bottler but what this shows at a minimum is, more evidence that very old bourbon was known in the early 1900's; that 23 years of age may have been considered a prime age for old whiskey (a tradition continued today in the form of ORVW 23 year old bourbon); and a single barrel bottling - advertised as such - is nothing new! Well done.

I observe too that the product probably was pot-stilled, due to the reference to direct firing of the copper vessels.

It looks like it was put on the market not long before Prohibition started (1916 to be exact - distilled 1893 and at 23 years of age, marketed in 1916) so very old whiskey well-predated (although we have other evidence) the medicinal whiskey era.

If it was mine I would open it immediately and compare it to bourbons of today in a detailed taste note, are you planning to do this (just wondering!).?

Gary
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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu May 17, 2007 7:00 pm

The Nutwood trademark was regfistered in the ca.1900 Mida's Trademark Registration to Moore and Selliger of Louisville, Kentucky and had been in use by that company since 15 November 1886. The 1911 Mida's Financial Directory list W H Thomas, Son Co. at Brook and Main Streets in Louisville with an unknown financil rating. This usually meant they were very small time dealers with less than a thousand dollars in inventory. They probably bought several old barrels of Nutwood on the open market and bottled it with permission from Max Selliger. They may have been his local agents for the brand.

Gary,
I am not sure that you are right about the year 1916. It could be read that 1893 was the bottling year. There are several things that point in that direction such as no warning I could see about re-use of the bottle. Nothing mentioning the Pure Food Act, or even straight bourbon whiskey. Also if you consider it to be pot stilled whiskey and it only says "double distilled with an open fire copper still" which may not mean the first distillation was pot still whiskey, Belmont and Nutwood/Astor had column stills in the 1890's.

I agree that the label should be an indication of when it was distilled, but it could represnt that it became 23 years old in the spring of 1893.


I also moved forward the Max Selliger timeline to see the history of the distillery.
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu May 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Thanks Mike. You could be right about bottling/distillation years, but I thought the picture showed "distilled 1893" - maybe not (it is hard to read).

Maybe the owner of the bottle can tell us what word precedes "1893".

About distillation, I guess an open fire might have heated the boilers that provided steam for a column still; this is possible.

I can't imagine someone with such a thing would not want to open it instantly!

Gary
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Unread postby afisher » Thu May 17, 2007 10:00 pm

If you look at the top two pix together, you can see that the label reads "23 years old spring 1893." Parsed normally, that would indicate 1893 as the year of bottling. In addition to the labeling features Mike V notes, the shape of the bottle looks sort of turn-of-the-century.

Offhand, "double distilled in copper over an open fire" sure sounds like it involves a pot still even for the first distillation, but greater liberties have been taken...

I am sort of amazed that anybody would intentionally inventory whiskey that long in those days; I wonder if they found it in a dusty corner and bottled it.
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Unread postby EllenJ » Fri May 18, 2007 1:19 am

bourbonv wrote:It could be read that 1893 was the bottling year. There are several things that point in that direction such as no warning I could see about re-use of the bottle. Nothing mentioning the Pure Food Act, or even straight bourbon whiskey... ..I agree that the label should be an indication of when it was distilled, but it could represnt that it became 23 years old in the spring of 1893.

As reinforcement for what Mike is pointing out, in addition to not having some information usually found on post-1910 labels, it does seem to have some of the traits found on labels from the 1880s and '90s. It's as though there was an attempt to give the impression of a Bottled-in-Bond-compliant product without actually qualifying as such. We have a bottle of McBrayer's, which I've discussed here before, that displays similar "sound alike, but not QUITE alike" phrases. Some of the old Maryland rye examples do, too.

Then again, Old Man Bourbon lives in Germany and this may have been labeled for export to Europe. Whole 'nuther set of rules. I'd be inclined to go with Mike on this, though -- it's more likely to have been made in 1870 and bottled in '93. Or not... there weren't any truth in labeling laws then for non-BIB whiskey.
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Unread postby gillmang » Fri May 18, 2007 4:31 am

Yes, I should have read the neck labels more closely. Perhaps Spring 1893 meant the bottling year in this case. Either way, an intriguing bottle.

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Unread postby bunghole » Fri May 18, 2007 7:19 am

EllenJ wrote:Then again, Old Man Bourbon lives in Germany and this may have been labeled for export to Europe. Whole 'nuther set of rules. I'd be inclined to go with Mike on this, though -- it's more likely to have been made in 1870 and bottled in '93. Or not... there weren't any truth in labeling laws then for non-BIB whiskey.


John makes a good point, also this being the "Age of the Rectifier" this bottle could just as easily contain colored white dog just 23 hours old.

Which brings us to Gary's point of opening the bottle and tasting it as that is the only way to know.

DRINK IT MAN, DRINK IT! :drink: :40oz: :beer: :partyman: :toothy10:

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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 18, 2007 12:14 pm

The 1870 date is interesting as well. Pot stills were still being used in 1870 but the column still was replacing them quickly. Since 1893 is before bottled-in-bond whiskey there was no reason to indicate where that whiskey was actually made. I know that OFC was a pot still distillery producing whiskey in 1870. MacBrayer was alos a pot still produced as was Old Oscar Pepper. If it was whiskey actually produced at Nutwood it was before the brand was registered and even before the distillery was built. Of course distillers never bottle someone elses whiskey under their name..., isn't that right John!
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the Bottle is for Sale

Unread postby Old Man Bourbon » Fri May 18, 2007 2:52 pm

Hello,

thanks for your help.
The Bottle is for Sale.

My Email is: oldmanbourbon20@aol.com


Old Man Bourbon



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Unread postby EllenJ » Fri May 18, 2007 3:04 pm

The Midacore shotglass database shows a listing for a Belmont shotglass, giving the the brand owner as the L. Hellman & Co. of Louisville. The shotglass says "L. HELLMAN" in a scroll across the top, with "LOUISVILLE, KY" in a similar scroll at the bottom. In between is a large bell, with "KY Hand Made Sour Mash DISTILLERY" inscribed on it. A banner across the top of the bell says "BELMONT". The same logo has appeared (much later, of course) on the Belmont Bourbon label.

The company was originally located at #44 3rd, below Main, and moved to #156 3rd in 1882. Mike, wasn't Distillers' Row on Main, between 3rd and 4th? They were known as "Franck Hellman & Co." until 1886, changing to "L. Hellman & Co." from 1887 until it closed in... yup, you guessed it... 1893.

Sam Cecil indicates that the Moore & Selliger distillery at 17th and Breckenridge dates from 1870, and gives them as the owners of the Astor, Belmont, and Nutwood brands. However, the Snyder database shows the Belmont Distillery Co. as first registered in 1881 and the distillery itself (which they show to be at 17th and Lexington) being established the following year.

I couldn't find any references to L. Hellman at the Belmont Distillery (Geo. H. Moore, President, Nathan Hofheimer, Secretary, Max Selliger, Treasurer), but there was also a Hellman Distillery Co. in St. Louis at around this same time with several brands, none of which were Nutwood, Astor, or Belmont. Louisville's L. Hellman might have been an authorized dealer or wholesaler.

The Belmont Distillery's offices moved several times during its existence from 1881 to 1919...
#3 Main, below 1st (1881)
110 W Main (1882-1892)
223 W Main (1893)
Arbegust, SW 17th (1894)
223 W Main (1895-1897)
1701-1723 Lexington (1902-1911)
1701 W Breckenridge (1912-1919) (I'm guessing the street name changed in 1912)

The actual brand "Nutwood" was first registered, to Belmont Distillery of Louisville, KY, around 1894 [Snyder reference: sg38]. That would indicate to me that Moore & Selliger bottled existing whiskey, probably in 1893, and sold it under the Nutwood brand label. As neither that distillery nor L. Hellman existed before 1881, there is some question as to whether it originated at a completely different (and unknown) distillery.

Or perhaps W. H. Thomas' Son was an indie bottler, like Cadenhead (or Van Winkle), who purchased a barrel from Belmont and marketed it privately

But then there's that reference from Sam Cecil...

Sam gives 1870 as the origin of the Moore & Selliger distillery. Now, most of us are aware that, due to the way information is (or isn't) conveyed in the whiskey-biz, not everything in Sam's book is dependably accurate. But that 1870 date would certainly be consistent with a 23 year-old whiskey bottled in 1893.

Yes, this is the kind of detective work I love about American spirits.
:think: :drool: :think:
No matter what vanilla, cocoa, pitted fruits (avacados?), or rutabaga flavors can be detected in the whiskey.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 18, 2007 4:34 pm

John,
You have to be a two bit town like Bardstown to have only a two block long "whiskey row" - Louisville's "whiskey row" ran from about Brook on EastMain and Market to about 10th Street on Main and Market. Louisville was the "Bourbon Capital of the World" from about 1840 to 1920. Everybody had an office in Louisville even if their distillery was in Owensboro. Louisville was the transportation center for the state with the Ohio River and the Railroad making shipments to anywhere in the U.S. possible.

oh yeah, John, you forgot Balsa wood!

Oldmanbourbon,
I would love to purchase your bottle of Nutwood except that I doubt I could afford your asking price. I do hope that if you sell it, then whoever buys it will review the whiskey.
Mike Veach
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Unread postby EllenJ » Fri May 18, 2007 7:35 pm

Heh-heh-heh
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Unread postby cowdery » Fri May 18, 2007 7:44 pm

Caveat Emptor.
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Unread postby cowdery » Fri May 18, 2007 7:55 pm

Nutwood was a significant enough brand to have fancy bar signs.
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