T.W. Samuel's Question.

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T.W. Samuel's Question.

Unread postby Bucc58 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:30 pm

Did the Samuel's family really destroy the recipe for T.W. Samuel's bourbon when they created Makers Mark or is that just a false legend? Is the bourbon Heaven Hill sales as T.W. Samuel's today that recipe or just some generic Heaven Hill stock? What ever it is, it wasn't very good. It tasted like a cheap knock off of Wild Turkey or something similar in taste minus the goodness.
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Unread postby mozilla » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:22 pm

I am sure there are others that will know more than I....but IIRC, There were more than one Samuel family member distilling at that time. The others made whiskey for at least a few years after Makers got it's start.

Was your bottle recent? Bib from Bardstown?
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Unread postby cowdery » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:34 pm

The recipe burning is attributed to Bill Samuels Senior, father of the guy most of us know as Bill Samuels.

I think something of the kind actually did happen, although in different tellings the date changes. Supposedly, he did it with a bit of a flourish, tossing the burning paper into a waste basket, and igniting nearby curtains in the process.

The point is real too, which is that by the time the T. W. Samuels plant in Deatsville closed it was making some pretty bad whiskey, attributed to a problem with the cooker that was scorching the mash, and consequently the Samuels name had gotten a bad reputation. What's usually not mentioned is that Bill Samuels was a minority shareholder by that time, so he didn't really control the operation. When the majority owners decided to close the place he tried to buy it but couldn't put enough money together.

Sam Cecil was also working there at the time and tells the story in detail in his book.

The other point not usually mentioned is that the Samuels family no longer owned the T. W. Samuels brand name, which bounced around before eventually landing at Heaven Hill. Heaven Hill doesn't make any special recipe for it. In fact, Heaven Hill only makes two bourbon formulas, one with rye and one with wheat. There was never any effort made to duplicate the Deatsville product and why would you?

I don't know of any other members of the Samuels family who were distilling then and to the best of my knowledge, Bills Senior and Junior are the only Samuels who made whiskey in the post-Prohibition era.

As for the names, the guy we all know as Bill Samuels is Taylor William Samuels VII. His father was Taylor William Samuels VI, but his grandfather was Leslie B. Samuels.
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Unread postby Bucc58 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:25 pm

Thanks Chuck. My bottle is very recent. Not sure if it is BIB or not. If Heaven Hill only puts out two reciepies I guess I don't understand how they get such a wide range of taste if they can't add flavors. I mean, age does change the taste some but, for example, Evan Williams has the same basic taste profile no matter what age. :?
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Unread postby cowdery » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:01 pm

Easy, every barrel ages differently.
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