Monogahela Advertising

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Monogahela Advertising

Unread postby bourbonv » Tue May 08, 2007 7:38 pm

Anybody know when Monongahela rye was first advertised in papers as "Monongahela"? I know Bourbon advertisements start in the 1810's - about 1818. I wonder which came first as a style. I suspect the rye, but I have no proof of that.
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Unread postby cowdery » Thu May 10, 2007 4:05 pm

I don't know about advertising but it is mentioned in Moby Dick, published in 1851.
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Unread postby afisher » Fri May 11, 2007 3:08 pm

The earliest contemporaneous references I can find at gutenberg.org are (like Moby Dick) from the 1850s. However, there's a 1901 novelization of Aaron Burr's imperial ambitions that uses Monongahela as a name for whiskey in dialog set around 1805; this could be an anachronism, though.

Of more interest is an undated (but at least post-1845) biography of Daniel Boone, which quotes J. J. Audubon writing ca. 1830 about an encounter with Boone ca. 1810, in which he tells of an incident ca. 1790 involving a flask of Monongahela and its use in extricating himself from a tight spot. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14023/14 ... 4023-h.htm

This suggests, but doesn't prove, that Monongahela had become a term for whiskey as early as 1790. The fact that the Boone biographer includes a parenthetical note explaining it suggests it may not have been in common use before the 1850s.

OK, now the obvious source: the OED cites an 1805 usage: "Mississippi Messenger (Natchez) 1 July 3/1 From Pittsburgh..a Quantity of best Monongahela Whiskey for sale by the barrel." (It also goes on to cite Audubon citing Boone.) So it looks like it is indeed used in advertising as early as 1805.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sat May 12, 2007 12:42 pm

The 1805 newspaper is what I am looking for ti answer my question. The only way you can trace the birth of the style is through written references. The Moby Dick reference nice, but historically of little worth being in a work of fiction many years after the fact. Advertisements in the newspapers are the best source of information. If you have a style of whiskey you want to sell you advertise it in the papers for the widest range of potential buyers.

My theory that is that Monongahela was created not longer before bourbon and maybe inspired the creation of "bourbon" as a seperate style of whiskey.
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Unread postby cowdery » Sat May 12, 2007 7:44 pm

I heartily disagree with you about the historical worth of the Moby Dick reference. Though a work of fiction, the author didn't make up the existence of Monongahela whiskey. It shows that at the time Moby Dick was written, Monongahela was widely known as a type of whiskey. It doesn't help you if you suspect the origins to be much earlier, but it shows pretty conclusively that the term was in common use by that time and also, in context, that whiskey was commonly being aged in new, charred barrels by then, because of its association with the color red.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sat May 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Chuck,
I agree that the Moby Dick reference shows that Monongahela was known in 1851 because it was used in the story. Period. That is all it does prove. Even if Melville had said Ahab used to make Monongahela as child at his uncle's farm in 1810, that would be of zero historical value because it was a work of fiction. It does nothing to shed light as to when the term "Monongahela" or "Monongahela Rye" was first used to describe a type of whiskey. That is what I am looking for.

I suspect the term was coined to seperate it from the corn whiskey being sold down the diver in New Orleans and the 1805 date is about right. That would be about a year and a half after the United States took possession of Louisiana and New Orleans. Enough time for whiskey to get to the market and purchasers find a way to distinguish between different styles of whiskey for sale.
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Unread postby cowdery » Sat May 12, 2007 8:59 pm

You may find this useful, as it puts Monongahela whiskey in Cincinnati in 1802 (the "1702" is clearly a typo).
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun May 13, 2007 12:33 pm

Chuck,
Thanks for the excellent link. It is indeed helpfull.
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Unread postby EllenJ » Mon May 14, 2007 12:49 pm

cowdery wrote:You may find this useful, as it puts Monongahela whiskey in Cincinnati in 1802 (the "1702" is clearly a typo).

Thanks, Chuck!
In the context of the paragraph, though, I'd guess it was 1792 -- there are other references to the 1790s.
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Unread postby gillmang » Mon May 14, 2007 1:22 pm

Note also the earlier paragraph which speaks of shipping "valuable" "whiskey" to Maysville, KY.

This piece was written in the 1890's and I believe the use of term Monongahela whiskey was being described accurately (i.e., people in 1792-1802 were using the term locally and from far away) but it is possible that the author was using a term that by the 1890's had a well-known meaning but hadn't been used in that way at the turn of the century. This might have been in other words an interpretation of the author, he assumed (possibly) that the whiskey he knew as Mon whiskey had to be what was produced in the area circa 1800. I incline to the former view but can't rule out the latter because he does not quote in terms a contemporary source.

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Unread postby cowdery » Mon May 14, 2007 2:32 pm

First, I assume the typo occurred when the text was transcribed for internet posting. You'll notice several other screwed up dates in the text. The actual book, no doubt available in the Cincinnati Public Library, probably has the correct date.

Second, 1802 is more likely because of the reference to "Wayne's victory." "Mad" Anthony Wayne won several battles over Blue Jacket's Confederacy in the 1790s. The Treaty of Greenville, signed in 1795, marked the end of that uprising, bringing peace to the Ohio Territory and leading to Ohio statehood in 1803. Therefore, I believe the reference is to 1802.

Third, while I considered that the author was writing in an 1890s context and recognizing that many of the American regional histories written during that period were loose about their facts, there is so much specificity in that paragraph that I think we can, at the very least, regard "Monongahela whiskey" as referring to grain spirit sent down river from the Pittsburgh area.

At that time, Pittsburgh's development was just a little ahead of Marietta's, which was just a little ahead of Limestone's, which was just a little ahead of Cincinnati's, which was just a litte ahead of Louisville's, etc.

My ancestors arrived in the Marietta area in 1808. There was a Cowdery Mill in what is now Keno, Ohio, but no evidence exists of a Cowdery distillery, though I remain hopeful.
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Unread postby afisher » Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 pm

Yes, ideally somebody could look at the book. Looking through the web page, it looks like somebody OCRed it (as opposed to typed it) and then ran a spell check, leaving OCR errors that passed the spell check (including all numbers). I will toss out one additional possibility, that the "1702" includes TWO OCR errors and really should have been 1795, which is appropriately proximate to Wayne's victory and also fits in the chronology of the paragraph.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Wed May 16, 2007 12:15 pm

I have been working making a shift in the stacks here at the Filson. I have found a lot more old newspapers from other states than I realised that we had. I will get back to you i a few weeks. There are several Pennsylvania newspapers worth looking into.
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