The Whiskey Rebellion

[bourbonv]

Bob,
No problem. I will definitely watch to see if they use any of the photographs I sent them. I amy have to record it just to check out the credits.

[bourbonv]

They must be planning to use some of the pictures - they sent me an email letting me know as a contributor when the show airs.

[bourbonv]

I watched the episode of the History Detectives with the Whiskey Rebellion story last night. It was quite interesting. They did not use any of the images I sent them but they did interview William Hogeland. I found that interesting. It was nice to put a face to the name when discussing his book. The case involved a flask found in a cabin near Pittsburgh and the lady wanted to know if it was from the whiskey rebellion era. After some investigation they determined that it was from the Civil War era. The other stories were interesting as well with a Superman drawing from the Second World War and some old record masterss that could have been blues songs from the 20's.

[cowdery]

Here's the transcript (PDF format).

[bourbonv]

I really had only two complaints about the story. The first is that they lead the viewers to believe that there were "big" distillers in the modern sense of the term. There were "big" distillers compared to the farmer distillers, but in the modern sense of the term they would still be micro distillers. We are talking distilleries that may have made 10 to 50 barrels a day compared to the farmers who were making 1 - 3 barrels a day. My other complaint is they are still spreading the myth that they fled Pennsylvania to come to Kentucky and Tennessee. The fact is that makes no sense at all because that still put them in the reach of Federal Marshalls. They fled to New Spain and the Mississippi River Valley when they left Pennsylvania.

[cowdery]

When Bill talks about "big" distillers he is talking about people who were producing on the scale that Washington himself produced and his best year was 11,000 gallons, which is less than a barrel a day (assuming 55 gallon barrels). If Dennis Pogue is right and Washington was one of the largest distillers of his day, then that is how much the "big" distillers then were producing.

Bill, in his book, at least, makes a distinction between "full time" producers like Washington and the typical farmer-distiller or miller-distiller, who produced intermittently and maybe produced a couple hundred gallons a year at the most. Like Washington, those "big" producers would also have been in many other businesses whereas the typical frontier distiller was primarily a miller or farmer who distilled on the side.

"History Detectives" is a good example of a show that will contrive a story line and create a "puzzle" where there really isn't one so that they can have a big payoff at the end. If that's what you have to do to get people to watch a show about history, so be it.

[EllenJ]

The danger (the to the Federalist government) was that they WOULDN'T flee, but rather declare their own independence (as many had only recently learned in the war with Britain). Had they done so, the new nation (ostensibly named Westsylvania) would not have been limited by existing state lines, and there is no doubt that much or all of western Kentucky and Tennessee would have been included. Were such a country to be created, its natural ally would have been Spain... and any other European nation (such as Britain) who would like a strategic base for attacking the new United States. Principals of that revolution (it was far more than a simple anti-tax rebellion, which was the point of Hogeland's work) were actively seeking aid from Spain, and it's no surprise that some sought refuge when the attempted secession failed.

I agree with Mike about the myth of Kentucky distillers being displaced Pennsylvanians. I didn't always feel that way, and it was Mike who convinced me with this elegant piece of logic... If that were true, then why are absolutely NONE of the great names in Kentucky bourbon descended from Pennsylvania families? Actually, I've since learned that's not entirely true, but even that serves to prove Mike's point: The family from which Jakob Boehm, progenitor of the Beam dynasty in Kentucky, descended did originally settle in Pennsylvania (Chester County, in eastern PA), but he came to Kentucky by way of Frederick, Maryland. His migration may have been hastened by the "rebellion" (it was at around the same time), but he wasn't one of the mythical west Pennsylvanian farmer-distillers fleeing down the Ohio river.

[EllenJ]

"History Detectives" is a good example of a show that will contrive a story line and create a "puzzle" where there really isn't one so that they can have a big payoff at the end. If that's what you have to do to get people to watch a show about history, so be it.

That sounds like more of a put-down than I suspect you really mean, Chuck. I'm not a fan of History Detectives myself, but I think any presentation that will catch the fancy of someone who would otherwise be concerned with which bug-eating fashion model will be the next one voted off the island by his/her peers has just got to be a good thing. We all (well most of us anyway) come to forums such as this one, filled with misinformation and fantasies. Eventually we learn The Truth, or at least a different set of fantasies . I readily admit to having been a prime example of someone who came into the wonderful world of American whiskey believing the tax-evading-distillers-escaping-to-Kentucky story (which I just MIGHT have read in one of your own early articles?). Shows such as History Detectives might be just the introduction some people need.

In fact, that would be an interesting topic all by itself... especially for newer members here. With all the products we use and enjoy, what's so special about bourbon? Most of us aren't on shaving cream forums, or members of "gasoline brand appreciation" discussion groups. What caused you to become fascinated by the history behind the liquor you drink? I'll start right off by saying (again) that it was internet reprints of Chuck's articles (along with Gary Regan, Lew Bryson, and John Hansell) that got me hooked, but I was already predisposed by my California wine country background.

[bourbonv]

As a historian/archivist I too find the show a bit contrived, but I still enjoy it. It is the only show on television that lets people see what the inside of an archive looks like. I hope thta it will give some people a little appreciation for what archives do to preserve the heritage of the nation.

Chuck is right in pointing out that the distillery at Mount Vernon was one of the largest in the nation for making whiskey. I know John Corlis ran a pretty big distillery in Providence, Rhode Island in the early 1800's, but he was making gin, not whiskey. He only started making whiskey when he moved to Bourbon County, Kentucky in 1816.

[cowdery]

I'm only being critical of the style of the show, not its content, and I completely agree that if a little show biz makes the medicine go down, that is all to the good.

There are worse offenders than History Detectives, "Digging for the Truth," on History Channel, being the one that first comes to mind. They distort a lot of the history in order to create a simple "problem" for host Josh Bernstein to "solve."

[bourbonv]

Chuck,
The History Channel has shows that don't invade Poland? I am shocked!

I don't have cable and don't normaly watch much TV, but everytime I have seen the History Channel there was some battle or another going on in Europe or the Pacific.

The History Detectives does have some interesting stories. I would be interested in hearing Chuck's views on the Blues story that preceded the Whiskey Rebellion story in this episode.

[cowdery]

The History Detectives does have some interesting stories. I would be interested in hearing Chuck's views on the Blues story that preceded the Whiskey Rebellion story in this episode.

It was hilarious. Perfect example. They did a story about missing blues records because that's the story they wanted to do, even though the starting point of their research didn't go in that direction at all, and the fact that they sent divers into the river looking for discarded records is hysterical.

However, what history they recounted was accurate.

[bourbonv]

I had the same opinion as far as the story line, but I am no expert on Blues History. I enjoyed learning about Paramount Record Company even if the masters were not lost blues records.