Two Historic Distilleries Are Threatened

There's a lot of history and 'lore' behind bourbon so discuss both here.

Moderators: Brewer, brendaj

Unread postby jbohan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:33 pm

It's a shame that somebody won't buy this distillery and turn it in to a tourist destination. Chuck, do you have any other pictures you could share ?

:salute:
To long ashes and long finishes
User avatar
jbohan
True Friend
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Atlanta area

Unread postby cowdery » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:03 am

One of my favorites, from Old Crow.
Attachments
Crow rackhouses.jpg
Crow rackhouses.jpg (42.53 KiB) Viewed 2820 times
- Chuck Cowdery

Author of Bourbon, Straight
User avatar
cowdery
Registered User
 
Posts: 1586
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:07 pm
Location: Chicago

Unread postby Mark » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:44 pm

jbohan wrote:It's a shame that somebody won't buy this distillery and turn it in to a tourist destination. Chuck, do you have any other pictures you could share ?

:salute:


No kidding John. I understand it would involve tons of money, may not be feasable to the bean counters etc etc, but just seeing a pic like that really makes you wish something could be done so all of us including future generations could see a distillery like that from the old days...
-=_Mark_=-
User avatar
Mark
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
 
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: SI, NY

Unread postby BSS » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:13 pm

The post card looks the same in the picture you posted than it does in person.
But the actual springhouse looks terrible in person. Some of the wooden structure is rotting and falling apart.
Anybody have a few million to put to the purchase?
Surely there are one or two members that are totally loaded and need a good cause to spend their money on!!
BSS
Registered User
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:11 pm

Unread postby bunghole » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:00 pm

BSS wrote:The post card looks the same in the picture you posted than it does in person.
But the actual springhouse looks terrible in person. Some of the wooden structure is rotting and falling apart.
Anybody have a few million to put to the purchase?
Surely there are one or two members that are totally loaded and need a good cause to spend their money on!!


Well it depends upon C. Withrow's will as to what Robert can do and not do with it.

As far as money is concerned - whiskey is a small time enterprise. I know folks that could buy out Dieago, Pernard Ricard, Allied Domenque, Constalation, Fortune Brands, Heaven Hill & Brown-Forman without breaking a sweat.

Any minor multi-billionaire can do the same. They don't bother to buy out the entire world's supply of whiskey.

Sure it's easy to do, but what fun would that be?

Even if you could buy out the world's supply of whiskey - Why would you want to or bother?

The fact is that American Whiskey Production is on a World Wide Basis a very small enterprise.

Any S&P 500 corporation could easily secure enough credit to buy every brewery; every winery, every distillery of every spirit upon this planet.

It's so easy!
User avatar
bunghole
Registered User
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:42 am
Location: Stuart's Draft, Virginia

Unread postby BSS » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:35 pm

I didn't say anything about blowing money on a smart investment that will make money. Thats what S&P 500 companies look for. I'm just saying if anyones super loaded, why not drop a few few mill on something that many bourbon history lovers would envy you for doing? But thats why most multi millionaires have millions, because they know when to spend it and when not. But what fun is that?

But seriously, it would be great if there was someone that had that kind of money among us, and actually made an attempt to purchase these places. I'd do it if I had about 100+ million in the bank.

I have heard that C Withrow might not have been as much of an owner as I originally thought. I have to make a trip to the PVA office Friday to research some other properties, while I'm there I will look for the Old Taylor deed, as well as the tracts of Old Crow to see which buildings the demolision company has contracts on.
BSS
Registered User
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:11 pm

Unread postby jbohan » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:49 pm

DISCUS has done a great thing to raise millions of dollars to rebuild George Wahsington's distillery. This is smart to put GW name matched with whiskey.

Is there some industry group in Kentucky that can raise money to save this one ? I know there are a number of closed distilleries, but are any as historicaly important to the current industry. And this place was built by a great man for people to come see the building and all it has , not just a distillery.

Let's see if we can get each distillery to donate 1 barrel to BourbonEnthusiast.com and we bottle them with a special label saying it has been produced to raise money to save Old Taylor, and we put a picture of it on the back. We then auction them off at the Whiskey Festival.

I'm sure there are better ideas, the point is we get a lot of people to help raise the money rather than waitng for a white knight. On the other hand, Dan Rather does love his Wild Turkey, and he is currenlty unemployed.... :think: :think:
To long ashes and long finishes
User avatar
jbohan
True Friend
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Atlanta area

Unread postby cowdery » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:18 pm

At this time, awareness of the situation is being raised. Many people in the Franklin/Woodford County area, not to mention within the rest of the state and industry, have been unaware of the distilleries themselves and their situation.

Much credit to Amy Bennett for the work that has been done to raise that awareness.

What might be useful now, if people would like to do something, would be simply to enquire nicely of people you know in Kentucky, particularly in the industry obviously, if anything can be done to preserve something of these sites. It would be good to let the producers know this is something their customers care about.

In my opinion, of sites related to the American whiskey industry that exist today and are in imminent danger of being lost, there are none more significant than these two.
- Chuck Cowdery

Author of Bourbon, Straight
User avatar
cowdery
Registered User
 
Posts: 1586
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:07 pm
Location: Chicago

Unread postby BSS » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:45 pm

Went to the PVA office today and was able to do a little research, but not as much as I wanted due to time issues.
The company has already removed a lot of old equipment and such from Crow. They have basically put large holes in the walls of the main distilling buildings and pulled what they wanted out. I got to look at a few pictures that were taken in the last few weeks that showed the damage that they have done. From what I could get out of it, they are interested in the metal from the machinery and such. Personally I don't think they have any plans to tear it down, they just want a lot of whats inside. If they wanted to tear it down, they wouldn't have went through the trouble of putting holes in the wall, they would have just torn it completely off. Most of the holes are on parts that aren't easily seen. But thats just my opinion. The PVA value was around 3 million for Crow. The PVA employee mentioned that one reason they never tried to get it going again is because the distilling house is located in the flood plain. And I have seen water get up into some of the main buildings.
He also said that he didn't have any knowledge of the company trying to do the same at Taylor. Doesn't mean it wont happen. I did however get the PVA value for it; around $450,000. But who knows if PVA value would represent true market value. It would be hard to judge on property like that.
I would like to do some more research on the ownership of Taylor; its listed under Stonecastle distilleriers or properties, can't remember which one. The deed will likely just list the owner as Stonecastle, so to find out how much each investor owns, I think you would need to find some other documents besides the property deed. Or maybe not, if I had more time I would have looked into it more.
Thats what I found out today.
BSS
Registered User
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:11 pm

Unread postby bunghole » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:54 pm

Thanks for your report BSS. Sounds like the stillhouse has been bashed in and raped along with the fermenting house. Now that the distilling apparattus has been ripped out and sold for scrap, Old Crow is no longer a distillery. Sad. Very Sad.

:arrow: ima :(
User avatar
bunghole
Registered User
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:42 am
Location: Stuart's Draft, Virginia

Unread postby BSS » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:04 pm

I would say thats an accurate statement!
BSS
Registered User
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:11 pm

Unread postby jbohan » Thu May 26, 2005 11:07 am

cowdery wrote:At this time, awareness of the situation is being raised. Many people in the Franklin/Woodford County area, not to mention within the rest of the state and industry, have been unaware of the distilleries themselves and their situation.


Any update on prpgress of saving these distilleries from destruction ?
To long ashes and long finishes
User avatar
jbohan
True Friend
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Atlanta area

Unread postby bunghole » Thu May 26, 2005 1:53 pm

jbohan wrote:
cowdery wrote:At this time, awareness of the situation is being raised. Many people in the Franklin/Woodford County area, not to mention within the rest of the state and industry, have been unaware of the distilleries themselves and their situation.


Any update on prpgress of saving these distilleries from destruction ?


Ima going to buy Old Taylor if owners will sell. Still looking into it. Have financing.

:arrow: ima :!:
User avatar
bunghole
Registered User
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:42 am
Location: Stuart's Draft, Virginia

More Pictures

Unread postby jbohan » Thu May 26, 2005 5:19 pm

Aerial shots of the Distilleries - Old Taylor

Here's what is printed on the back of this card:

Published by F.M.Kirby & Co. Made in U.S.A.

There is no printed text about the distillery, the place for the stamp says Domestic One Cent, Foreign Two Cents. The card was not post marked, it looks like someone used a series of post cards to write a letter. This one starts out with 2 at the top and picks up in mid sentence...

"friend of mine died on Nov. 1st. She was a pensioner and had she lived long enough would have drawn $36.00 pension. There is about $33.00 due her relatives, so I am going to put in a claim for her daughter. I have to see the druggist, doctor, grocery-man , etc. and that all takes time.
It has gotten much ......"

The ink gets noticeably lighter on "a pensioner" , "about $33.00", and "man, etc." which would indicate the writer was using a pen that had to be dipped in an inkwell occasionaly.

The perspective on this card appears to be from the opposite angle of the later post card. These buildings seem to be the ones farthest away behind the water tower on the left on the more recent picture.
Attachments
Old Taylor post card.jpg
Old Taylor
Old Taylor post card.jpg (64.08 KiB) Viewed 2653 times
Last edited by jbohan on Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
To long ashes and long finishes
User avatar
jbohan
True Friend
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Atlanta area

Old Crow

Unread postby jbohan » Thu May 26, 2005 5:20 pm

Aerial shot of Old Crow

On the back of the post card it says:
About 1835, James Crow, Scotch physician and surgeon, first made in Kentucky the famous whiskey that bears his name. He is credited with introducing to distillers in this country many innovations in whiskey making which, before his time, was a hit and miss operation. The Old Crow Distillery is still near the mouth of Glenn's Creek, on the Woodford County line, near Frankfort, Ky.
"Those in the know ask for Old Crow"

The middle seperator on the card reads:
Bottled in Bond - Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey - 100 Proof
National Distillers Products Company -- New York, N.Y T-473
49917
Attachments
Old Crow post card.jpg
Old Crow
Old Crow post card.jpg (23.71 KiB) Viewed 2651 times
Last edited by jbohan on Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To long ashes and long finishes
User avatar
jbohan
True Friend
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Atlanta area

PreviousNext

Return to Bourbon Lore

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests