Jack Daniel Silver Select

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Jack Daniel Silver Select

Unread postby bourbonv » Sun May 14, 2006 2:02 pm

I was reading Gary's excellent review of Jack Daniel's Silver Select and the part that caught my eye was the fact that it is single barrel and it is supose to be picked at the same time they pick the other single barrel products. I can not answer to Gary's comment about it being a taste profile of Jack Daniel Old No. 7 before prohibition because I have never drank pre-prohibition Jack Daniel's. What I did find interesting is that they may be sending the honey barrels of Jack Daniel's overseas where they can get the big bucks for a bottle.

I like the Jack Daniel's Single Barrel better than any of the other domestic Jack Daniel products. Gary describes this product in such a way that I feel I would like this better than the Single Barrel. I tend to like bourbons with dark fruits such as the cherries that Gary finds in this product. Is it the dark Bing Cherries that you find in this drink or is it more like Wild Cherries or even sour cherry pie type cherries?

Mike Veach
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Unread postby gillmang » Sun May 14, 2006 3:29 pm

Mike, it is dark Bing-type I would say. It really is special, I was surprised!

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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun May 14, 2006 4:27 pm

We had some Old Grand Dad from the early 80's recently that had that same dark fruit cherry flavor in spades. I believe it was considered some of the best bourbon we had drank in a long time. If the silver select has that flavor, I can see why you like it so much. Does the smokey flavor of Jack Daniel's conflict with this fruitiness or does the fruitiness compliment the smokiness?

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Unread postby gillmang » Sun May 14, 2006 6:07 pm

Mike, the bottle is in a locked cabinet at my office and I will bring it home and give more complete notes tomorrow night, because I want to be accurate. As it happens until recently I had some OG from National Distillers that I bought myself in St. Martin last December, it had the paler orange label and fluted bottled neck and smaller representation of the Grandad figurehead that denotes ND-era whiskey. It did have a statement on it of both Clermont and Frankfort and the bottle was stamped 90 on the bottom; I inferred this was all Frankfort whiskey but bottled after the takeover. Anyway it had a deep fruity taste, dark marmelade-like, exactly what you are talking about in the ND sample you tasted. The fruity quality of the JD Silver Select was not as intense as that but comparable to a degree. I'll give better notes later this week when I retrieve the bottle.

One of the things I wonder about is, i) what caused that old fruity taste, which is evident also (in a different way) in ND OT, and ii) why has that taste been rubbed out in most modern bourbon including bourbon sold under the names we are discussing?. In Bardstown during the recent Sampler and the SB Gazebo tastings, I had the chance to taste a number of whiskeys from the 1940's until the 70's (both bourbon and straight rye) and most had that fruity-like taste (e.g. a 1940's Old Weller did). Some offered it in more of a raisiny interpretation. Clearly this was a hallmark of many whiskey flavours then; the Silver Select, possibly chosen with an eye to historical verisimilitude, offers that taste or certainly a hint of it. Maybe it is the serendipity of that particular bottle, the only way to know is to obtain another bottle of Silver Select and I won't be able to do that for a while!

Gary
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun May 14, 2006 6:17 pm

Gary,
I am not sure what causes the fruitiness we are talking about, but it does go away in most bourbons about the time they started barreling at 125 proof. I think that it has something to do with lower distillation proof leaving some of the grain flavors in the whiskey. I will ask around and see what I can find out.

I asked about the smokiness and the fruit because I saw a cooking show yesterday that was talking about grilling peach halves on the grill after rubbing them with a mixture of melted butter and brown sugar. I was thinking then that I was not sure I would like to do that on a charcoal grill because smoke and fruit might not mix well.

Mike Veach
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Unread postby gillmang » Mon May 15, 2006 7:34 am

Mike, I always thought it might have been the yeasts of the day. If they were doing top-ferments (i.e., at warmer temperatures, say around 65 F) that might result in a ferment with marked estery flavors which would go over the still. I don't know how the ferments of modern distilling for bourbon are carried on. I think I saw both at Barton and Maker's a traditional top fermentation method but I think any kind of beer can be made in a way to have a non-estery taste (through careful yeast selection). I just don't know, but it seems notable that many of these older whiskeys had that taste (not all though). As to fruit and smoke, ham glazes often use fruit and many hams are still subjected to a smoking of some kind. I think the two tastes can complement. One way to test this for spirits is to mix Southern Comfort with a barrely bourbon. The result can be very good. On its own, the neutral base in the Southern Comfort imparts a clean taste that highlights the fruit extract but with a smoky bourbon added you get more complexity. Another example is aging peaty Islay whiskies in ex-sherry casks, a frequent practice.

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Unread postby gillmang » Wed May 17, 2006 10:32 am

Mike, just a note that I did essay the Silver Select again. It did not really make a different impression the second time. It seemed again a more refined, interesting version of the Single Barrel. The typical Jack taste was there though, perhaps more than I first noticed, but it seemed still less evident than in any other bottling of Jack. I think the high proof may be the main reason. The 100 proof stands up as it were to the banana and anise notes or seems rather to mute them if that makes sense. Anway it is a nice drink and seems traditional in its approach.

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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 19, 2006 9:38 am

Gary,
Do you think this is the same whiskey as the single barrel, except that it is bottled at 100 proof? I have not tried Jack Daniel's straight from the barrel, but now you have my curiosity up. I think that might be something to try to get from Chris.

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Unread postby gillmang » Fri May 19, 2006 10:12 am

Mike, it is hard to say. It has "markers" of Jack Daniels Single Barrel (and regular Jack) but in a refined, tastier interpretation. I believe they probably choose the best barrels for Silver Select. Barrels slightly less good are perhaps chosen for the Single Barrel. I say this because based on (admittedly) only 1 sample of Silver Select it seems better. But maybe Chris Morris would say only the proof differentiates them. If so, it is a good example of how a higher proof can make a drink better in my view! I would seek a sample from him if that is possible, I'd be interested in your own side-by-side analysis. I can save you some from my bottle (now 1/4 full) but I won't see you until September!

Gary
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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 19, 2006 12:06 pm

Gary,
I will see what I can do about getting some JD from the barrel. It also seems to me that I need to get another bottle of the Silver Select for comparison, in case you simply have a true honey barrel and not the normal flavor profile.

Mike Veach
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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu May 25, 2006 10:45 am

Gary,
I have been discussing with Chris Morris the Silver Select. He states that the same selection process for single barrel is used for silver Select with only barrels from the top floor. The proof seems to be the only real difference between the two brands. The extra proof obviously makes some difference.

Mike Veach
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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 26, 2006 11:03 am

I just got off the phone with Chris Morris and we were discussing the Silver Select. He was stating that it usually takes a 5 or 6 degree of proof change to be readily noticed by the palate. This is definitely illustrated by the 6 point change from 94 to 100 in the Silver Select versus Jack Daniel's Single Barrel. He states that the fruit tones created by the yeast come through more in the higher proof and some of this is because they don't have to filter it as much. I am hoping he will get me a sample of some barrel proof JD and if he does, I will save some for you, Gary (In a small bottle and in a dark room!).

Mike Veach
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Unread postby gillmang » Fri May 26, 2006 11:41 am

Thanks Mike and I will save some for you, too, I have a small vial Doug gave me that will be perfect (used previously for other whiskey samples). I'll fill it tonight to keep it for you. Most interesting that the extra proof together with the residual yeast notes make a difference but (to state the obvious, but still) Chris is right, the Silver Select has a noticeable pleasant fruity character that seems absent from the other JD's. I enjoy that because together with the higher proof it adds complexity and also diminishes the "candy/anise" notes which I like but not in overabundance. It sounds too like they aren't filtering the Silver Select, or not as much, and clearly that helps too.

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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri May 26, 2006 12:30 pm

Gary,
The lower the proof, the more they filter a product. The more they filter, the more flavor they remove. That is one reason I am interested in try some Jack Daniel at barrel proof and unfiltered. It should be quite flavorful at the 130 or so proof from the barrel (depending upon age abd place in the warehouse). If the sample is a silver select sample it may be higher since it comes from the top floor.

Mike Veach
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Unread postby gillmang » Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 pm

Well, even in the 100 the fruitiness (a ripe strawberry-like flavor) was very evident and pleasing. Maybe the old-timers who sold (and bought) 100 proof bonded as the gold standard really knew what they were talking about.

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