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My stepbrother who is a sales rep for Diageo tells me that there is a "new" Dickel product hitting the shelves in May. Based on our conversation, it sounds like some sort of resurrection of the Special Barrel Reserve (or something similar), but he knows no more details yet.

Anybody have inside scoop?

Haven't heard but as I'm sittin here with a glass in hand (3 fingers over clear ice) I'm certainly interested.
Let us know if anything comes of this.

Did you mean this one? (thanks, Howie)

Hey, John, sorry - somehow we overlooked this post for weeks!

I assume that this is it - it still hasn't hit the shelves in VA, though. I was told that this has been available in TN for a while. One person told me that he thought it was more or less a very dressed up version of Dickel 12. Do you know any scoop? I know the old BH collection Dickel product carried a 10 year age statement, but it doesn't look like this one does (or am I missing it?).

Hi Dave --
I don't know if it's ever going to be shipped out for general sale. I was under the impression it was only available at the distillery's souvenir store, the way the old "powderhorn" bottle was. It might be available only in Tennessee, like Four Roses is in Kentucky.

According to a well-known Hall-of-Fame nominee with whom we're acquainted, and convincingly demonstrated by him to an audience of n'er-do-well's and skeptics (some of whom may be reading this), the ten-year-old originally used in the UD Heritage collection became 11, then 12, and so forth as overproduction caused their inventory to back up. In sample pours, he carefully reduced the #12's proof from 90 to the SR's 86, and no one in the room could detect the difference. That also suggests the even better side of this... that anyone buying (more or less) six-year-old #12, already a bargain for whiskey of that quality, was really getting the same 12-year product -- and at higher proof, no less!

Such a DEAL!

Even today there's probably little difference between the two other than proof. Dickel started the still back up less than four years ago, so without an age statement to the contrary you know there's none of the new product in there. The last of the old stuff came out in 1999, so even if they used only their youngest whiskey it would be seven years, and they probably used older stock. You can see why they'd prefer not to make that age-statement mistake again with the new labelling.

However, in reference to that last paragraph, keep this mind: Why do you suppose Diageo chose to shut down production (for four years -- interesting length of time, no?) instead of just transferring the excess product to another of their brands like everyone else does? The answer is that they can't. Dickel can't be added to any bourbon, because it's not bourbon; it's Tennessee whiskey. In fact, it's not even "straight whiskey". Since it doesn't qualify as straight spirit, and because (despite 63 years of updates and modifications to the federal regulations since Motlow's rejection letter from them) the Treasury department still has not seen fit to recognize Tennessee whiskey as anything special, other than "not straight whiskey", George Dickel (as well as that other fine "D" whiskey from the Volunteer State) isn't required to conform to any specifications that wouldn't also apply to Early Times. It could be (I'm not saying it is -- that's for someone else to find out -- only that it COULD be) bottled right off the still, with caramel coloring and flavoring added, same as every other brown liquor that isn't straight whiskey. It COULD be aged six months on toasted oak (or maple) chips. The new whiskey from Dickel COULD be distilled as straight bourbon whiskey, and then flavored with maple charcoal AT THE TIME OF BOTTLING, so as to allow any future overruns to be absorbed by other brands (since the whiskey would conform to regulation up to that point). To tell you the truth, DEO stockholders (or at least the thirteen or so who believe Dickel to be of any significance to the company) should welcome a decision like that, since it would prevent having to shut the plant down and restart it (that's the costly part) whenever there's a production overrun. In addition, it would also allow them to transfer production of their bourbon product, I.W. Harper, to the Cascade plant instead of contracting it out to Bernheim.

John,
The powder horn and golf club bottles were available nation wide. The distilleries could not sell any bottles at the distillery until about 1994 when Brown-Forman and United Distillers lobbied Nashville to allow sales at visitor's centers, but even then the distibuters demanded that the bottles sold there had to be available to them as well so as to keep the distilleries from having an advantage over the distributers.

John if Diageo wanted, they could have put Dickel into Crown Royal or some other blend. From what I understand that is what they are doing now with the 14 to 20 year old Old Fitzgerald whiskey from Stitzel-Weller. I think the reason they shut down for 4 years is more greed than anything. They did not need the whiskey and if there is a break in quality because of the shut down, who cares it is not like it is a scotch or anything important. Their own sales force bring scotch whisky merchandise give aways to George Dickel promotional events. That alone should tell yuou about the respect the whiskey gets by the Brits.

Mike Veach

bourbonv wrote:John,
From what I understand that is what they are doing now with the 14 to 20 year old Old Fitzgerald whiskey from Stitzel-Weller.
Mike Veach

This constitutes a mortal sin IMO.
Joe

Thanks for the insight, John and Mike. Unabashedly displaying my ignorance, I'll ask this:

Is TN whiskey required to have an age statement if it is less than 36 months?

and

Was the Dickel still fired up less than THREE years ago? If not, couldn't new product be going in, even if the age statement regulation still stands? (I'm correct that the legal obligation to state age is 36 months, aren't I? Or do I have that wrong?)

The rumor I heard from someone I consider to be reliable was that Dickel let some store in Tullahoma carry it, and then they were legally obligated to distribute it statewide in TN. However, if they've got new product to dump in, maybe now is a good time to sell young whiskey in a fancy bottle regionally for $35 a pop? Boy, I'm sounding more cynical than I intended.

John if Diageo wanted, they could have put Dickel into Crown Royal or some other blend. From what I understand that is what they are doing now with the 14 to 20 year old Old Fitzgerald whiskey from Stitzel-Weller.

Given the current market, why do you think they choose to do this instead of create some kind of superpremium brand with a big price?

Dave,
The short answer is that Diageo does not care about bourbon. Why go to the trouble and expense to promote a product that you don't really want. Mix it in with Crown Royal and make your money off of it and get rid of it. That is all they want to do.

The age statement rule does apply to Tennessee whiskey as well as straight whiskey. Dickel's problems will begin when they start to run out of the aged product and have to bottle mostly young product. It will cause a serious shift in flavor profile. Diageo does not see that is a problem though because after all, Dickel in their opinion, is made to be mixed with coke at a tailgate party. They are so stupid that it is almost funny until you consider the people who take pride in making the product only to have idiots sell market it.

Mike Veach

angelshare wrote:The rumor I heard from someone I consider to be reliable was that Dickel let some store in Tullahoma carry it, and then they were legally obligated to distribute it statewide in TN.

I can also substantiate this because I was in that store in Tullahoma in October and there was plenty for sale. The store said they were acting as Dickel's local represenative.
Joe

I saw the Dickel Barrel Select on the shelf in Tennessee week before last at $28.99. I think it was in Jackson, TN. I was tempted but did not buy.

Mike and Dave,

The way I understood it is that the 1994 change in the law allowed distilleries to sell onsite, which they apparently weren't able to do before, BUT ONLY if it were a bottling NOT AVAILABLE through distributors (i.e., a souvenir bottle).

But that leaves me with some confusion. Does Tennessee have different laws for Moore County and Coffey County?

Jack Daniel's did sell replicas of old bottles through distributors, as they still do, but not of Barrelhouse #1, which was only available at the distillery. That brand dates from 1994, so it seems to relate to the change in the law, but that would make the law the opposite of what allows Dickel to sell Special Reserve onsite, since that brand WAS sold through distributors and retail package-stores.

As for the powderhorn bottle, that one dates from 1964, and I've never heard anyone say they purchased it at a retail store. It clearly states that it's a "souvenir" bottling, both molded into the glass and also on a label sticker. More importantly, an additional label shows front and back color photos of the actual retail bottle that the customer needs to look for at the package-store. See photo below.

The rules for "how many years" are mainly from the Bottled in Bond act, which doesn't apply to either of the Tennessee whiskeys, nor to very many Kentucky whiskeys anymore. The Code of Federal Regulations is more vague, but applies to a wider range of spirits. Basically, it says you can't call your whiskey "straight" unless it's been aged for two years (not 36 months). There are similar requirements for some fruit brandies and rums. Nothing in the Code refers to how age may or may not be displayed on a label. Those requirements, including the one for "under four years" are for Bottled in Bond. Of course, the Code of Federal Regulations doesn't acknowledge Tennessee whiskey at all, so none of this applies except in the generic sense of "whiskey".

As for what to do with overstocked product, Dave, I like your idea best of all... dump the oldest barrels, bottle 'em up (perhaps at barrel proof), call it super-special-exclusive, triple the retail price, and watch it sell out in two days and show up on Ebay for $1000 a bottle by the end of the week!!

Not to mention folks like us demanding to know how we can get some!!

John,
The bottle was not sold at the distillery. Those labels were simply reminders to look for the everyday bottling of Dickel after they finish the Powderhorn bottle. There are letters in the U.D. archives from liquor stores voicing complaints because the bottle took up too much self space.
Mike Veach