Vatting American Whiskey

Talk about Tennessee, American and Rye Whiskey here.

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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:29 am

Howie,
Try about 60/40 mixture pf Very Old Barton/Walker's Deluxe.

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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:49 am

You guys are getting good! The VOB has some "extra" smoke and body that would balance out the deficiency of same in the WD. For a variation, add 10-15% straight rye.

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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:20 am

Gary,
I notice that even though you have more than 10 reviews, you have not chosen a title for yourself. I think Howie has done so for you. I like the title "vatman"! You are talented in this school of whiskey knowledge and it fits!

I have to admit that my suggesttion is not too original and you could say it dates to 1792.

What about a vatting of Mellow Corn and Rx? Would this be a good choice?

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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:10 pm

Okay, thanks gents, Vatman it is. Mark, please feel free to append the name, or if I have to do anything further to make it happen, please let me know.

I do think corn whiskey and a wheat-recipe bourbon would blend well. The object would be to develop a straight whiskey palate of intensity without rye (or very much of it) but with a bourbon undertone: not an easy thing to do. One way to do it is to use old wheat-recipe bourbons (e.g. blend ORVW 15 year old, Pappy 15 and Pappy 20 for a true vatting), but to do it with young whiskeys is harder because they lack very much lignin sweetness. So adding corn whiskey, which has a strong palate due to the short aging in reused wood, would balance well with a mild wheated bourbon.

You might go one-third each Bernheim Wheat, Mellow Corn, Rx. Or just Bernheim Wheat and Rx. The proportions are important, too, when I've done this I find changing the proportions can radically change the flavour. Maybe 20% corn whiskey and 40% each of the other two would make more sense. Or 10% corn, 10% Bernheim, 80% Rx, to retain (hopefully) a bourbon feel. Corn whiskey as we know is strong-tasting and it would give body and a certain aroma to the blend if used in the right amount, but if overused would throw things awry (ahem again). Whereas the Bernheim is a smooth customer and you can't go wrong using a fair amount of that in a blend such as you propose, but too much would take away from the bourbon character. Of course when I do it I don't concern myself overly with what comes out the other end as long as it tastes good and of straight whiskey!

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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:26 pm

Just to get back to Howie's request, here is a simple way to start, and it is the way I started my blending and vatting experiments.

Simply add 10-20% rye whiskey to the Walker's Deluxe.

The WD is thin and pallid likely because it lacks enough rye in the small grains. Also, it may have been distilled and entered at higher proofs than are optimium for maximum flavor. So, adding good rye whiskey "restores" the rye and adds more congeners from having been made more traditionally. Wild Turkey rye is ideal. If you do this (start with only 10% rye and work up from there) you will have a rich, traditional-tasting bourbon. Which is what Howie wants to turn that into. You can't go wrong with this. You can use any rye but Wild Turkey's will be about the best since the current one is older than 4 years old (IMO) and would match well with the WD age (more or less). But if you have, say, ORVW 13 year old, use that.

Old-time distillers (I read this once) used to add rye whiskey to a vat of bourbon to lend it character. That is where I got the idea, it is simple common sense.

From there you can go in many directions, but start simply.

Gary
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Unread postby bunghole » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:42 pm

Vatman needs an avatar too! :wink:
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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:48 pm

With a wizard hat?

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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:24 pm

Yeah, my computer tech abilities unfortunately are up to none of this. :)

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Unread postby bunghole » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:29 pm

gillmang wrote:Yeah, my computer tech abilities unfortunately are up to none of this. :)

Gary


Ah! But Mark Ricky's are. Send Mark a pm and he will help.
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:29 pm

Mark, I'm going public, I'm in your hands. :)

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Unread postby bourbonv » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:48 am

Howie,
What did you do? Let us hear about your results.

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Unread postby bunghole » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:34 am

Well, I bought some 10 year old Evan Williams 1783 86 proof that I'm not too thrilled with, so I vatted in some 10 year old Ancient Ancient Age (also 86 proof) along with a splash of water. This works pretty well, and there is a brown maple sugar candy flavor that wasn't there before. I don't know why or how, but it's there now.

:arrow: ima :smilebox:
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Unread postby gillmang » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:00 pm

Yes this is what I would have done, exactly. You might try the AAA 2:1 or even 3:1 to the Evan Williams 1783. I know that one and it can be a bit "congeneric" in taste, in needs taming but toned down the result should be very good because some congener fills out a whiskey. A good example of the sum being (arguably) greater than its parts.

Another way to use 1783 is base it against a bland whiskey, in which case 1:1 might be better.

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Unread postby bunghole » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:16 pm

That's right, Vatman! ima using 1 oz. 1783 to 1 oz. AAA with about 1/3 oz water. They really compliment each other quite nicely. The water opens the nose and serves to even out the finish. Very easy drinking - a good combo! Very Gestaltist! :thumbup:

:arrow: ima :drink:
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Unread postby gillmang » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:42 am

Are you saying whisky blending and vatting are also the "Zeitgeist", no pun intended? :)
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